Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:43 am

I was just thinking about that damned scar on Peter's face again- I was watching season 1, and Hiro from the future mentions Peter's scar ..but that was from a timeline when the cheerleader wasnt saved and Peter never got healing power. Now we saw Peter, who does have healing power, obliterated by a nuclear explosion, recover and heal completely while his future scarred self stayed dead from a measly bullet. Younger Peter could have popped the bullet out at least. We know he'd heal as long as it doesnt stay in.
(That future Peter survived nuclear explosions before by having Ted's power - the ability to generate radiation without suffering any effects from it. Ted could explode without dying too - while he still had a brain.<g>)

I'm waiting ...hanging by the thread of Hiro's storyline - when are they going to start being crafty and fun by making sense again?
The joy of watching this show was that we could speculate several episodes ahead, and whatever the answer was- whether we got it right or were led down a garden path by an early impression- the answers fit so well, like jigsaw pieces or missing squares in Isaac’s comics- it was a delight and joy to watch.
Now its just sort of spitting various idea at us, without bothering to see if it conflicts 20 things we already saw or they indicated would come soon.

Where is Peter's Irish girl that he abandoned in a disease ridden timeline that he caused not to exist? Is she wiped from existence? Is she still there and time changed around her? Why isn't Peter trying to find that out? Why wasnt he begging future self to explain her fate as well?

Where is Nathan's kids and (ex)wife? They were potentially powerful too- and we know, unlike Xmen, people in this world dont get powers at puberty or whatever, they get them all ages, but a large group of them get them at the same time. Hiro's journey to 6m before the show started was when everyone started getting little bits of power in the first group. They all started really using them around the eclipse. So it's not a biological growth factor, but something planetary that shifts them into supermode. Why aren't we seeing more of the mystery of the planetary shifts done? I dont even need that explained yet ...just have a group discover their powers the same way - a whole bunch all at once, on a coinciding mission.

Elle better show up soon- she's not the kind of person to disappear quietly. They can't just dump her and think the audience won't notice.

What about Matt's wife Jan and kid? They indicated that Matt had huge issues with abandoning that baby, that he had to confront his ex-wife and make sure the kid wasnt his before he could move on with his life. They suggested that she lied to him, to challenge him whether or not he really loved her, or to ensure that he'd never dare read Jan's mind again to find what else she could break his heart with. That still needs to be resolved. (Heroes isnt much of a show if they raise issues that big and dont resolve them. The whole strength lies in the fact that if they raise the question, they have the answer.)

Is Matt's current head game supposed to stop him from turning into his mind-controlling Dad? Still shouldnt stop him from worrying about that baby and needing to have it out with Jan, especially if plans to marry the dumb speedster blonde from the future. (I suppose, on that point, that they felt they needed someone esp brain-dead to oppose Hiro, to make his catwoman analogy stand out as particularly humorous - He can tell her what's going on till the cows come him, and it won't make a dent in the platinum. "Huh? End of the world? I dont know what you're talking about - I just was hired to steal the secret formula from people." - Yeah. Exactly how many brain cells does it take to do the equation of ' stolen secret formulas' and 'end of the world''? #-o Two more than she's got, apparently. Possibly the only person Matt can feel confident about his intellect with, considering his ability :mrgreen: )

Why isn't Molly with Mohinder? Where was she whisked off to if neither Matt nor Mohinder is there, when they didn't dare trust anyone else with her, to guard her? Surely not with the gal who will kill Molly (by accident) with a single bad tempered moment? Matt and Mohinder would both die before handing her over to the company. Mohinder has obviously chosen to work for himself now, after his brief belief that company was doing good. Otherwise a company man would have noticed his changes before now, and Disease Girl would be locked up on level 5.

Sylar was still killing everyone who helped him or hurt him when he had no powers - after he realized he couldnt absorb anyone’s powers anymore, he just hooked up with Disease Girl to goad her into killing more. For the fun of watching. Gloated about it to Doomed Twin Brother...so we know his serial killer days are not linked to his powers at all. He just thinks it's more fun than Sudoku on a Sunday afternoon, and if he can delay it a bit to make the victims writhe in pain while he gloats - why he doent even need popcorn.
(Maybe Madame Petrelli's evil empathy power forces him to believe there is some link now, in his power and his sadistic streak, so that she can gain more control over him. Besides, if he tries to believe her, she'll feed him more people. For being such a good boy.)


Still waiting for DL to come back <g>- doesnt matter he's been dead a year. He was, after his nonappearance for half the show, and looking like a wife beater right up until he strangled her half to deah - which is quite a feat in story telling - but you missed him as soon as he was gone. Micah and his amazing cousin need to start doing stuff to - she stopped one mad killer, but Aunt Nicki (apparently) died - with Uhura/Nichol and the nasty (mildly*) dumb cousin as the counter play, the two of them should be determined to do something superhero style with their lives, to make up for her death. Probably prowling New Orleans as we speak- but I feel we are missing out by not seeing them do so. DL could show up at some strategic moment when they find themselves unexpectedly outflanked again.

*he wasnt completely nasty and stupid- just lowlife enough to steal his own cousin's momentos of recently deceased dad - which is low even for a kid, but both his nastiness and dumb moves can be partially excused by age - he was sorry afterwards and could see how dumb some of his moves were in hindsight. I would say he's still smarter than Matt's future date.
You know, they had little hints of grand destiny in all of the early storylines, Mohinder often waxed elegant on the philosophy of God's hand in evolution, but Nathan opens his mouth about a miracle and starts praying, and all I see is a greedy televangelist, using God to justify a play for power and money. Perhaps going mad with the power imagery and looking for a grand apocalypse to justify it all. It says something for the fact that no matter how he reforms himself, it's the oily side of him that sticks. :lol:

Hiro's the only story that I don't see gaping holes in. I just hope someone walks in with some major plaster and starts the clean up soon.


Please please don't hire the Smallville writers to help - the masters of hoping the audience can't remember beyond 3 eps. "Well, never mind what we said before - now this person has brothers and sisters, and this one doesnt, and um...we'll just forget all those eps with parents for this one. Now they need their best friend from highschool to give them away at a wedding! Isnt that cuter than remembering continuity?" - I think that last line in inscribed above the writers room door.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:57 pm

Don't have time to write much right now - but did want to say this ep was a step above what we've been seeing.

We've been anticipating seeing Mr Petrelli Sr since the first flashbacks - I mean, we knew he was a mover and shaker, we knew his wife was one, and suspected that they were at odds with one another over various goals (or maybe they had big plans together, but I always saw Angela as possibly his murderer to get vision done) and what we've seen so far has managed not to contradict anything we've heard about him before, and live up to the anticipation.

Well, except one thing. The stupid promo giving away his return in the middle of the Chuck episode on before. #-o :evil: What the hell is going on with the marketing department? They were so good about building anticipation without taking the whump! out of the biggest moment in the upcoming ep. [-X Considering how bad the last couple eps were in introducing meandering plot holes, this huge spoiler in the middle of Chuck almost had me changing the channel. There were plenty of moments in the show they could have marketed without giving away the biggest moment in the ep. The way they did it- giving away the best surprise of the show, but also making it clear that it was the best surprise at the same time... I didnt see much point in watching a show where there was nothing to anticipate. If I was the kind of person who didnt like to watch an ep without knowing ahead of time what the main twist would be, I would be going to spoiler sites and digging all that up ahead of time. I'd be checking on contract information and know who all the guest stars were going to be, what characters would be returning, and a good idea why.
(Actually, I know Doctor Who fans like that. They gather up all the info they can -there's a lot since BBC is a government agency and actors contracts with it are available to the public, to a certain extent, allowing them access to the kinds of info that spoiler hunters in the US can only dream about- and then can barely be brought to watch the eps once the one thing they werent certain of is spelled out. <g> We should come up with a new name for those kind of non-viewer viewers. Virtual fans? Virtual Viewers? They dont want the actual experience of watching the show, just gathering as much info as the media and virtual world will spill. - Media Glutters? Media Gluttons? Maybe too much like an insult. Media Harvesters? The shows media harvesters latched onto the interview for hints on the new character's role.... Gotta work on that. None of those have the right zing. I like Virtual Viewers best tho. )

But obviously, I got over all that and watched the show. :mrgreen:

It started off with a lot of Hiro, which is a good way to start the game. Adam Ando and Hiro made a perfect trio of comic and energy, with little Hiro constantly being attacked, then whump! Adam would be back underground again, all the time Ando advising Hiro that he's just sure there's a better way to go about this business. Despite the predictability of the bar scene, the Hiro story remains funny and full of zest. Hiro's attempt to view the bar as the Star Wars Cantina scene was good. The ridiculousness that he wouldnt freeze time and fetch Adam, instead of slow search with Ando while Adam could get further and further away ...um, not very Hiro like. Hiro had already demonstrated it was his first knee-jerk reaction to things going missing ...but it was okay that Adam got kidnapped while they had their back turned. I mean, Adam deserved it.
The bit with Hiro killing Ando was sort of funny too - I mean, there's not so much as a three year old viewer out there that would take that seriously (actually, what 3 yr old is watching TV that late?) but Ando's face was convincing. I think Ando should have been prepared for that.

Now the revelation that Linderman is not only in Nathan's head, but is traveling around gathering others - that is interesting. Unexpected - I thought we had a Harvey thing going on, instead we have a Maury thing going on. Which is good, because "Why the heck was Maury killing all the founders in the picture in the first place?" Bob and Angela all stepped around that question in season 2, and I was still expecting an answer. The fact that they havent answered that, or what happened to the poor Irish love interest, Caitlin, stranded in a diseased future that doesnt exist anymore, or what Elle is doing now that Ma Petrelli set her out among the public - a public unprepared for the sparky paranoid psychotic- all part of the problem with I have continuing to watch the show. But they actually answered a question! Finally - a writer that remembered season 2 did happen! (Face facts writers - just because a season is over doesnt mean it didnt happen. That means if you dropped the ball and didnt wrap everything up before the end of the last season, you still have to take care of all the questions you raised before. I will grant you that a writers strike is a very good excuse for not wrapping it all up in 2007 :D - but unless part of your brain is still on strike [-X , you are still beholden to your viewers to follow up on what you laid out. )

Maury behind the season 2 story of the killings, and Petrelli is the kingpin controlling Maury. One part slips into place...making the show a lot more clever and interesting. Thank you Tim! Seriously, I only complain because I hate to lose something as good as this show started out to be.

Cute that his next stage, after securing Nathan, was to start with the ever not so bright blonde :lol: He likes the easy targets first.

All we really knew about their dad was that Nathan nearly idolized him, and was his father's son- both lawyers, concerned with money and power- while Peter was the rebellious son who went distinctly his own path, and his mother loved him for it, and supported him. Nathan, tho, was just as embarrassed by his dad's mob ties as Peter was annoyed by it. Peter was the one who talked Nathan out of going after Dad to take out Linderman, at the very same party that Dad shunned Peter at. Dad dies the day he was about to be arraigned...(I've been suspicious ever since, as I'm sure many of you were - did Angela arrange to have him killed to save Linderman? Did he fake his own death to avoid the law? Did the Company take him out or did he do it to fight the Company?)
Peter reacted to his controlling mother with a mixture of sympathy and anger "I know since Dad died you've been feeling free to speak your mind" ...so we know that for all her manipulation and schemes- and she is a master of cold hearted manipulation- she was cowed by her husband. He was the controlling force in the family - perhaps the reason that tho she thought the world of Nathan and put her trust in his doing the action she approved most, Peter had her heart. Tho Peter's insecurities were built into him by all of his family - the dog probably ordered him about :roll: , he still ignored all their rules and got a career as a male nurse, and went to work as a hospice nurse. I mean - that takes courage that no one else in the family had - to ignore what Dad wanted and follow his own instincts.

Claire got to stop doing the evil sadist in training bit (tho they were really really obvious with the metaphor, giving her a taser so that she walked into the room like an Elle substitute, Company daughter, out to zap the bad guys to earn her a rightful place in her dad's heart. And because it's really fun to hurt people.) But a conversation with her chosen monster changes everything. And she's working with him to help him get his family back- and is there to witness her dad not only working with the monster that destroyed a large piece of her soul when he started taking apart her brain, but then trying to destroy this man's soul to kill Sylar. She's seen a darker side of her father than she can accept right now, esp since she identified so much with the man that killed himself rather than destroy his soul for HRG. Sylar manipulated this into letting her see Sylar as her potential future self, that her father sees her as "one of Them" and "Them" is all monsters... Again, a storyline I find much more believable for Claire and HRG than the previous ones have been. (I mean - Goth Claire? Killing and letting her partners go after babies? Why not just make her sprout little horns on her head and be done with it?)

Mohinder is getting darker and worse... interesting to see what might happen now. I dont know if this storyline will be ... decently done or not. He lost a lot of intelligence in later parts of season 2- all his cleverness in the beginning of season 1 and 2 bled away in ridiculous turn around based on less than honorable actions by the company - they nearly make him kill/remove powers from a kid and when he refuses, they set spies on him, and next thing you know, his is all for the company. Neither Matt nor Maury appeared to behind his mind bent moves, and he and HRG never revealed an deeper plan within their plan in his pretending to turn on HRG, which had been my only hope to redeem former estimates of the characters intelligence....is the mutancy going to turn him into a cleverer villain? Is he going to turn back around after another phase?

I finally watched Heroes Unmasked .. it was from a few eps ago. I'm not watching anymore till the season ends. Someone sat there and told us how previously in the story everyone we saw with powers was a hero :^o , that even Sylar was a hero in his own way :^o :^o , so it was time for some of the heroes to turn themselves into villains. :idea: #-o :roll:

Kind of makes you wonder what show he's been watching hmm?

Except for a few that discovered their power in season 1, almost everyone with power has turned out to be a villain, and even the "heroes" are often questionable as to which side they'd pick. Jessica was evil till the end of season 1, she realizes she has to give up and let Nick have back the body to save her son. Then she still remained fairly gray, working for the evil company that kidnapped her son and planned to leave him to die in a burning building during the holocaust. When she did a really good deed and helped rescued her niece, they killed her off. Same with DL, the struggling ex-con. Traci is a political animal. Need I say more? The idea of doing the moral thing doesn’t come easy to her. Nathan the same.. Peter is constantly there to veer him back to the right track, Nathan depends on him for that. Angela - a hideous monster grabbing for power. Bob's the same. Linder the same. Claire's mom was greedy firestarter, stealing, blackmailing, and strongly hinting that she started the fire ages ago and left her infant to die in it. Elle kills and tortures for fun. Adam was good for a month, bad for 400yrs. Maury was another monster.

The only ones with power that have been introduced as heroes that didn't get pushed to putting on the black hat at one point during season 1 and 2, have been Hiro, Peter, and Claire. Ando was hero without power, and Mohinder was one for for the first season and a half - when he started working for the company he more or less lost that. First thing he does is shoot people.
(Yes, cousin "Joan" worked her way up to hero by the end of the second season. We need to see what she's doing with her life, btw, with her orphaned cousin, Nichole Aunti and somewhat idiot brother to cause them all greif from time to time)

Matt was a hero for the first season, but obviously going dark side from the first ep of the second season. Still not very bright tho. Figure the desert trek thing he's on is supposed to bring him back, to the good side.

There were those that struggled with the powers and morality of their choices, but most of the time when they introduced a new person with power, they were working for the company, or imprisoned by them, and you knew they couldnt be trusted.

Sylar "trying to be a hero" Yeah, for half an ep in season 1, he considered how to stop himself from destroying the city. He was sorry, and tried to change. The rest of the time, in the future and the past, he was the monster, the serial killer who killed because of 'evolution' - but after that, mostly because it was fun. He went after kids, old folks, nice folks, and Furlow. When he got all the power he wanted, he turned genocidal, trying to wipe off all the mutants off the planet with a poison. When he didnt get any new powers, and had no power, he settled for killing people with rocks, strangling, and setting up others to kill for him. That's how he liked to live. Boasting about how much fun it was to anyone he was pretty sure couldnt understand him. He's not been playing the hero, he's been reveling in being the villian.

[rehash largest/most obvious plot hole]There's still no way - after a whole season of powerless Sylar just killing for the diddly fun of it - that I can swallow the idea that it's just his power making him kill in a lust for power. And frankly, it makes no sense that the same lust would make Peter kill anyone. He gets the power without having to peel brains, he should have no urge to kill.[/rehash the worst]
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:47 pm

It's kinda ironic that Sylar seems to be the only person that is trying to be good. Everyone else is showing their evil side. I really don't like it, especially showing Hiro stabbing Ando and Hiro not making smart choices. Ando might be the good guy in the future.

Man, I hate that it is getting so complicated. I still want to know what happen to Peter's girlfriend that was trapped in the future.

Was Maury in with Papa P. from the begining. Was Peter's dad trying to kill them, but they killed him (so they thought) first.
These were the twelve founders of the Company in the photo.

Arthur Petrelli
Angela Petrelli
Linderman (deceased)
Bob Bishop(Goldfinger)(deceased)
Kaito Nakamura (Hiro's dad)deceased
Charles Deveaux (deceased)
Maury Parkman (Matt's dad)
Victoria Pratt (deceased)
Suzanne Amman (deceased)?
Harry Fletcher (deceased)?
Paula Gramble (deceased)?
Carlos Mendez (deceased)?
Adam was not in the picture.
Matt said to Hiro that they were supposedly deceased.

Here are the "recruits" for Dad Petrelli

Maury
Daphne
Knox (fear)
Flint (fire)
Hiro (double agent?)
Future Claire
Adam
Anyone else?
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:39 pm

Well, you can mark Adam off the list. Man, what a quick end to a guy we all hated. I was wanting him to suffer more.

Looks like Sylar has lost his title as King of all villians to Arthur Petrelli. Yeah Peter, give daddy a hug.... you dumbass.
No wonder Maury Parkman is scared to death of Arthur.(So it seems is Angela, no wonder they tried to kill him.)
Hiro did something smart for once and set up Ando to look like he stabbed him. Too bad he still couldn't out smart that guy in Africa.

Man, it seems that the Mohinder that we all grew to love, is no longer with us. We can only hope that Daddy Petrelli can take away Mohinder's powers too and change him back to a normal person again.

Who would ever thought that Matt would ever hook up with Daphne. At least Daphne is trying to protect him. Daphne knows she is being played, but she is trapped.

Peter, Peter, Peter..... you deserve what you got. You refused Sylar's help and now you are useless. At least Daddy got rid of the Power that Sylar gave him. I wonder how it will affect Daddy. This next episode will be interesting to say the least.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:54 pm

II had posted a post way back, fairly lengthy- and then my computer zapped it away *sigh* and I gave up for a while.

Off the top of my head, I only recall little comments like ..we all knew Hiro was faking Ando's death, it was just a question of did he warn Ando first or not, and we see that he did, which was the cleverer option <g>

At this point I'll just say - another good ep! 3 in a row - my fears that Heroes had lost it's grip on how to tell a story are being dispelled, which makes me happy :mrgreen:, tho those beginning eps have still shaken my overall confidence. :cry: But ...anybody can be shaky after a writer's strike.


Elle is back, which was great. Lionel was the clever one (such an underused character - you gotta wonder what it's like for a kid to have a super healing sister, a shady dad and a mom who was nearly killed by his own dad's wiping her memory - how does he cope? We get Micah’s story, but nothing from Lionel...but he's got to wonder about what kind of day he's going to have coming home from school to this group, and what will happen to his future with villains hovering over them all the time.) and the family dealt with the home invasion nicely. Elle and Claire's parallel stories sent them off to Pinehearst in a completely illogical manner
*
I mean, not to quibble, but Elle already knew not to approach this group without getting all the intel she could, even if it meant facing HRG, and she lets Claire persuade her to leave without a simple phone call? And Claire seizing on this makes even less sense. The rest of the ep was fairly logical, but this decision was ... zombie ate my brains level. Mom should have been calling HRG and checking on Pinehearst before letting the two of the out of her site. Lets hope the writers do better than "what would be the worst decision possible" and not even let character think as much they've been established to so far. I mean, peroxide-for-brain Daphne, I could see being this stupid, but not Nearly-Goth-Claire or Psycho-Elle. They have their own kinds of stupid, but this sort of rushing into some big company's hands is not one of them.
*
But other than that, things went okay.
-I'm working on the assumption that when Daphne made her call to her boss at the end, she was faking them out, as Matt should have been reading her mind for their plan to work, so no way could she have him fooled. He's simple, but not even he could miss out on the 'must make Matt like me for the boss" bit.

Still need to see Matt face his "become mind-controlling monster" bit, still need Peter's girlfriend rescued from the diseased or not diseased future.They have a lot of storyline from season 2 to grab hold of and make work.

Syler seemed to buy the "I get to try to be the good guy" line for a day or so, and maybe even still, as he obviously spared Peter -and Dad didnt miss a trick. Peter was finally thinking this ep, paying attention to Sylar, Mohinder and his Dad, trying to get help from whoever he could and recognizing psycho-Sylar was trying to turn into the good guy Gabriel from the future. He goes back to rescue Sylar and gets gently boosted out (well, except for the glass that would have sliced him to ribbons) and manages to rescue his niece. Elle was already committed to being terminally stupid, so had to go. She may end up alright... or perhaps as Mohinder's next test subject. (Also her character could be got rid of with a swipe of Arthur's hand, but frankly I'm more interested in seeing how this Claire/Elle parallel could go places. Elle could be quite interesting, and stop Claire from heading off into the cliché world of Goth gone bad, which would help Claire's storyline get back on track.)

Mohinder is now the desperate one, dipping back and forth across the line of bad and good - he was always the smart one with the great moral compass before, but last season they let him become a bit stupid, so this season they are making up for it by making him a clever villain instead of clever hero? Interestingly enough, the man who killed his father has been right where Mohinder is now, scrawling on the walls for forgiveness before he realized how much fun he was having killing others. Perhaps Sylar can save Mohinder. I see they let Mohinder keep looking normal, which is good for us 8) - I thought he'd be chitinous and insectoid by now.

Ando is missing his chance to dream journey with Hiro, I mean, once the hyena dung ingredient was revealed I see why, but I thought it would have fun to let them journey together to see everything - the two have such a great dynamic and this time, Ando would have as much control over the dream as Hiro. He'd love that, and the two would be fun at it.

Nathan's urge to see his dad is pretty strong - he was always his dad's favorite, so I can see why. Even his impulse to go after his dad to further his career (pre death) came from his desire to think like his dad. His instance of being brain-dead makes sense within his character- he just wants to see his dad for himself, then yell at him for attacking Peter and Mom. Since Peter was probably attacked one way or another their whole lives, I don't see Dad having any problem turning Nathan aside from that, but it will be interesting to see who Nathan is before his father. Possibly a different person altogether, possibly just an easy person for his dad to aim. I expect Nathan to walk out of there, even if Icequeen can't, even if he sees anyone else he knows as a victim. His dad just has to say that this is so, and Nathan will back down. At least for the time it takes to go. Arthur may not even grab his flying power. Hard to say.

Favorite line from the ep: Mohinder asked Petrelli how he could fake his own death and put his children thru all that grief-
"Have you met their mother?"

On that subject, Arthur was clearly always the greater manipulator than Angela, so anything he tells Sylar take with a grain of salt and a bridge in a desert, but you have to wonder if the story of Angela trying to drown her baby has some truth to it. Did she try to drown him to save him from Arthur's plan? To save Peter and Claire from his attacks? Did Arthur or Murray -at his bidding- control her to make her do it, so that she came up with the plan to give him up to save him? Did it never happen at all, but to someone else - was Peter nearly drown? Did Angela find someone else drowning him?

...nah. She'd never drown Peter. Throw him to the wolves, yes, but not drown him. That's a Gabriel sort of thing.
So maybe she did try to drown him to save the world. But which one of them arranged for him to be adopted? They went to a lot of effort to make sure he was raised to feel a bit worthless unless he could find something special inside him.

Well, we shall see what we shall see, but I hope we see more of what happened to all those people from the last season!
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:03 am

It was an absolutely wonderful ep on tonight (and looks like just as thrilling one coming up next time) - so of course all I'm going to comment on is the two flaws that jumped out at me.

I know, but they were huge flaws.

One was a simple line, a throwaway line, that Angela gives Arthur when she can't persuade him to come to Peter's party. "Peter is going to be a great man someday."

I dont care how braindead she may have been that day, no way in the universe would she have said that sort of thing about Peter! Nathan was both parents choice to be the great man someday, Peter was the one they regarded - the whole family- as inferior. They all loved him, but they did not expect great things from him. They expected him to be empathically sympathetic to all people troubles, to admirable in his sympathy, but to fail in any aspirations beyond those areas as they regarded those traits as weaknesses that would bring him down in the end. (The exception being Heidi, who expected Peter to succeed in his nursing career bcs of his empathy, and she did not share the family trait of expecting great public works or money to prove you were worthwhile) It was engraved in every step the family took and the source of Peter's troubles as he tried to control his powers.

His mom was so sure he wasnt going to be great that she tried to slap down any sign of his powers, partly to keep him safe and out of danger, partly just because she thought his failures would get in the way. Then she and Linderman realized they could use his inheret failings to make their plan work ... that one, throwaway line just ....they're trying to establish a pretty backstory, and that's all fine and dandy, but they need to stick with what will work. Angela trying to persuade Arthur to come to the party yes, Angela saying she loved her son and wished his father would show him some support on his day of success, yes. Saying he would be a great man someday ... #-o and arrrrggggggggggggggggggggggghhh, and banging head against the wall with wrong thing for Angela to say.

Still, you can sort of eat your popcorn and pretend you didnt hear that line, and carry on. But it was something that needed to be nixed by the continuity person who messed up on something worse.

The much bigger mistake, no surpise, was Syler. I can go with the Gabriel vs Sylar thing being company oriented, that HRG, man of hidden darkness, would set up psycho-Elle to make someone else a serial killer against her will ... she was erratic enough that you could see have good thoughts someday, worrying about a suicidal stranger, and then killing someone the next day for messing up her coffee order. ( Mostly because she surely could sympathize with a suicidal killer, and would rather continue to kill than get a job giving someone coffee.:twisted: )

But ...the timing- they have all this taking place, the first murder, the set up and list and next target, as he kills victim number 2, HRG then hops into the cab with Mohinder.

Problem - Sylar had killed a lot more than two people, he'd killed enough of Prof Suresh's list that Suresh started to see thru the facade and realized what he'd done. Sylar had begun gloating over the deaths and teasing Suresh for supplying the lists for him to murder. And then he murdered Suresh Sr. And after that, HRG flew to Inda to collect Suresh's things, flew home, and then Mohinder Suresh flew to NYC, got an apartment, and the cab job, and it was a day later when he dropped Peter off and HRG got in the cab.

None of this could possibly have happened on the day Sylar started killing again- HRG had already moved against Suresh 6months before out of fear for his daughter, and Sylar was killing based on that same list. HRG would never be satisfied that he'd taken Claire off the list before Gabrial/Sylar had seen it (which he clearly hadnt removed Claire's name in time) and he'd have never let a danger to his little girl roam around. The idea that he had cameras tracking him and never tried to interfere with the path would lead him straight to Claire's brain- and pushed him along it- nope. HRG had already done some work beyond his superiors knowledge to protect Claire at this point. They needed to have the Sylar storyline happen earlier for it to work. Sylar had killed several people and then the professor before this happened, and that's what got the blonde FBI agent on Sylar's trail, all across the country, before the story started with the eclipse. Mohinder doesnt get to NYC till the day/day after Suresh Sr dies ...they messed up the continuity bad with the Sylar story.

Normally these sorts of blows can kill an ep - that one statement about Peter was the sort of mindblowing -as in 'this is a mistep in fiction' thing that ruins suspension of disbelief .. you cant have ep after ep about Peter not being believed to worth much and stick that in - and the failure to get the Sylar storyline continuity going is a biggie, much bigger one when it comes to following such a closely written story. Either one, I'd normally say, could could for 20% off how great an ep could be... (15-20 for the Peter will be a great man line, 20-30% for failure in Sylar continuity)

But - lets face it, other than these glaring mistakes- the ep was a work of art. The other continuity bits worked out beautifully - you always suspected Meredith as having something to do with that fire in Odessa, her timing when she mentioned it later was too suspect to let lie - having her related to fireboy makes perfect sense. Seeing Thomas, evil boss of HRG in action and actually being kind to Meredith - probably so she never found out that she was wandering around in the same town as a Claire the company had given to HRG, but still - it was a sight to see! The only site I'm sorry we didnt see was the Invisible Man/Christopher Eccleston make an appearence. Technically, I think he was still shot a couple years back <g>, when Claire was still 12-13? have to rewatch Company Man, but he was supposed to be years gone when Peter found him, so that fits. Still, there maybe some other invisible man...or maybe Chris's character (they only ever gave him the name of the character from the book Invisible Man, so I dont think they meant us to take it as his real name) helped them catch him for his own reasons - fireball guy hurt his birds, encroached on his theiving patch, brought the company too close for Chris's guy to live comfortably.

Since we werent lucky enough to see Chris, I'm going to give that one a miss, about Chris being dead for a while already in their books.

But really, it was so well played with the parts they did get right, and they did it so well, that ...well, I'd give the ep an 98%, because of the hundreds of things they got right as opposed to the two biggies they got wrong.

Of course...it's really late at night and maybe I'm just being too generous in my enthusiasm ..but it was such a great ep!

..and of course the cliffhanger ending - will Hiro surive?

well...only as long as Tim doesn't want to kill off his meal ticket.. (Hiro's story was always worth watching even when no one elses was in those early bad eps this season, after all).
I'm voting for Ando vs Arthur, to Hiro's rescue!

C'mon Ando, save the day! Just this once! :mrgreen:
Ando, with a lead pipe, in the desert!
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:31 pm

Pssst. Hey Ando, use the big rock that is by Arthur....
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:32 pm

I was disappointed that the guy that was helping Hiro and Ando died. Man, they are killing off Supers left and right.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:47 pm

Yeah, but Heroes always did do that.

I didnt post and they had a really good 2 parter.

Ironically the only mistake they made was a really really obvious mistake - and they had to go and name the episode after it. Their (just about everybody we've seen) powers didnt start around the eclipse, they made that very clear in season 1. Hiro was the only one who more or less started around the same day of the eclipse - that was the day he finally succeeded in turning the clock back one second. But he'd had things happen before to make him try so hard, including a late train. We can fudge and say maybe it all started within 24 hours of the eclipse.

But everyone else either had their power for over a decade or more, tho the main characters of season 1 started 6 months before the eclipse. They emphasized over and over that the eclipse wasnt the start of their getting powers or activating them, but that it was the start of a chain of events that brought so many people with powers together. It was suggested that people getting powers were sort of a destiny to save the planet, the species consciousness -or even the hand of God- bringing powers together to fight off world threatening events from one power within it.

It had nothing to do with getting powers, but in the catalyst of events that shaped how they were used. Not a 'get a power catalyst' catalyst.

Other than that huge concept mistake, which made the viewers wince every time it was mentioned (and all too often) it was a great 2 parter.

Life and holidays prevented the comments from coming sooner, and being longer, and yes, I'm only posting on the mistake. But it was still a great 2 parter and helped greatly in restoring faith that this season will hold up to season 1 and the first part of season 2.

If they will just pick up the ball on all those unfinished bits they left stranded from season 2, it will be truly great again. I mean, Caitlin has to appear soon right? Some sign of her fate? There's plenty of stories they need to cover, (did they really think stopping only the disease part of the story meant they could pretend the rest of the story hadnt even happened? Did the lack luster reaction to the few eps in the beginning not give them the hint that we expected more about all the rest of the stuff they left hanging?) but the girl dropped in a displaced timeline is definitely the worst dropped ball they've ever done.

Why the heck isnt Peter flying around the world after her by now? He's got connections and can walk to an airforce base- why not take off for Ireland and see if she bounced back home, find out about her murdered brother....do something with all that love that pushed him to madly trust Adam to save Caitlyn when a simple mind reading or logical track should have stopped him. They really need to cover what happened to her, and she's going to cope with a murdered brother and what will her fate be. Either way, after remembering his family, her support could be crucial to helping him fight both sides to save the planet. Mostly emotional support, which Peter could clearly use, but with a brother like hers I imagine she could be good in crisis, know how to handle herself with an armed maniac or in a fight
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:10 pm

Season Finale was last night... I guess the new season starts the day after the Superbowl(Feb. 2)

Well it seems that everyone died or was at near death at least one time this season.

Arthur Petrilli is dead... but you never know for sure in this world where Sylar, Claire, and Peter exist, there is always a chance for anyone to return from the dead.
Speaking of Sylar, do you actually believe that he is dead....nope, he somehow got out. He is just too evil to be able to kill. He is like a timex watch, it takes a licking but keeps on ticking.

So it looks like Nathan has completely gone to the dark side, and Peter has finally regained his powers. Hiro lost his, but Ando got some. It will be interesting to see if in the new season, Hiro has to play 2nd fiddle to Ando because of this.
The formula is destroyed, but as long as Prof Suresh is alive, there is the chance that the formula still exists. Now the question is, what power does he (Prof Suresh) have (strength?) and is he totally healed of being the abomination that it looked like he was turning into. And will he turn to the good side?

HRG has more lives than a cat. Just as you think that he is a goner, something happens and he gets out of it. Just proves that you don't have to be a super to be dangerous.

And I thought it was some kind of justice that it was Claire that put Sylar down... it looks like permanently.

And how the heck did the African survive? We thought he was decapitated by Authur, but he shows up in the last scene... interesting.

I was alittle mad at the series about the whole solar ecilpse event, but the last show nicely tied everything up and sets the stage for the next season. I can't wait.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:20 pm

I wonder what other powers Sylar picked up during his massacre of the cell block. I wonder if somebody found him and pulled him out.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:01 pm

Well I'm glad it wasn't a season finale - the show was good, but to end a season like that would have been a heck of a disappointment, not even finishing up the storylines the writer's strike left abandoned from season 2.

It was the end to a volume tho, which they always wanted to throw at us mid season, to let us know that seasons may be on a schedule, but they can end their story focus at any time of their choosing and therefore keep open the options to surprise us, and focus on something new.. plus a whole year of villains would have been ...well, dull. Depressing. It would either have to lose focus or kill off most of the planet <g>

The African seer, we don't know if he's dead or alive, his appearance could be an after effect of the drug he fed people - or Hiro (or someone) may have pulled him from the past and dropped him into the future. Either way, an interesting character to follow.

Sylar did pick up some great powers this season, but instead of using them all at once, like the invincible Sylar of season 1, he only seems to be able to use his newest powers and a few old ones - you never see him use all the useful powers he's gained to get answers, instead seeks out someone who gets a warning from a lie? when he had all those other powers, from a history of an object to hearing that enabled him to use lie detector abilities, to various others I cant think of just now, that let him know if people were telling the truth before. And tho he can gain abilities without killing, he is back to enjoying it. Tho he's really not my favorite villain, I have to admit, the part where he turns to his next victims and says "Oh, cake!" is delightful - creepy and scary, and lets have fun being psycho all in one <g>

(Arthur is really the sort of villain I enjoy- casually cruel, psychotic even, but doesnt mess up the furniture with blood splatter. Much more vicious than viscous.)

Sylar, of course, just had his off switch pulled. It wouldnt surprise me have Madame Petrelli or HRG turn him back on - HRG hates him for what happened to Claire, but he's far too gray in morals and subplots to allow that to prevent him from making use of him.

I wonder if now HRG will turn into the figure he was in 5yrs in the future from season 1, where he hid families, urging the fathers to protect their powered children as he gave them new identities. Or he could be the first choice of the government to hire to control the powers. We're going deep into Xmen territory, the stories could be fun.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:33 pm

I guess between Hiro, Peter and Arthur, they messed up the time lines so much that the girlfriend no longer exists. :twisted: And since Mama Petrilli is still alive, it seems that HRG will always (for the most part) work for her.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby Mreen on Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:13 am

It's bad enough we didnt get a confrontation scene with Matt and his ex over his abandoned baby - his character arc is all lopsided because they raised that up and never completed it. I keep telling myself that it can be put off because his brain isnt big enough to focus on it during the Hiro crisis -( didn't you love that how Matt completely wowed the slightly more mentally impaired Daphne with basic high school science, btw? )- it still has to be covered tho or he makes no sense as person. He's never been the sort to just leave alone his guilty concience, he gets plagued or he turns bad.

If they actually cause Caitlin to cease to exist and never have Peter go after her or agonize over it.. I may have to kick the habit of watching the show. I mean, it's not Smallville. Half the reason to watch that show is to laugh at it and point out the continuity goofs as it sweetly ignores anything that isnt cute enough for the ep du jour, ..the other half of the reason being it is just so darn cute when it does that, that you have to keep watching <g>. But people watch Heroes for the opposite reason - it's smart, twisty and fun, and always comes thru in the end.

So....we've seen some terrible gaps in the last few eps where history couldnt have happened the way it did in the flashbacks. So they've got this stupid scar thing although Peter's regen abilities would logically erase in time, or enough injuries (and you know he's going to come back from some major cataclysm ) ...but this is the first year they really made those kind of mistakes. And so much improved during those eps, you could really say, okay they caught most of juggling balls that they threw up at the start of the hour, and as there were a couple dozen, dropping a couple is really forgivable just once. But not if thats the way they plan to continue to write the story from now on. If they start failing all the previous setups started in season 2 on top of a few obvious gaps like the Chandra's murder and the eclipse thing (which really, after devoting an entire ep to how the powers started six months before the eclipse, was a bit much)... well, it just wont be worth it anymore.

It'll be the show of "What did they get wrong now that they can't correct later?"- and really, is that so different from any other scifi show without good continuity? :(There will be no edge, no fun, no puzzles to guess at, just fans composing their own "How can I fix this" cannon to justify why to keep watching. I dont need Heroes to go that route.

Sorry, just the thought of Heroes blowing off their edge to play the 'exciting action instead of actual writing' theme is ..well, depressing. A disappointment.
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Re: Heroes Season 3 (or 2.5 or whatever)no spoilers-US

Postby sleeper on Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:23 pm

It seems that the show always kills off all the smart "Heroes" (or they just drop them completely). Matt and Daphne have never been the sharpest knifes in the draw. Nathan, Hiro, Suresh, HRG, and Claire have done some pretty dumb things. Peter ain't that bright. Even Mama Petrilli has done some things that was questionable. Maybe with the guy from Africa returning back from the dead, he could give some solid leadership to this group. He seemed like the only one that knew what was going on(other than Arthur). Sylar has always been a killer, so at least he knows what to do. And you need the villian to be a little smarter than everyone else. Will they... in the new season, be smart enough to communicate with each other on what is going on. This show is like the Xmen... without Dr. X. They aren't organized, and they are all fighting their small battles against a bigger foe. I don't know why they have to turn Nathan into the heavy... It seems that Mama Petrilli would still fit the bill very well.
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