OFFICIAL Stargate Atlantis -SPOILERS

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Postby KaraS on Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:55 pm

Don't be embarrassed. If you missed some episodes I can see where you might have gotten confused.

The Wraith inject the enzyme into their victims when they feed, this keeps the victims from dying beofre the Wraith finish feeding. A Wraith was feeding on Ford when the wraith was killed by an explosion. It spasmed and injected more than the usual amount of enzyme into him and the enzyme caused physical changes to his face and eye in addition to giving him increased strength and stamina. At no time was Ford in danger of being turned into a wraith.

Also, at one point Sheppard was infected by an early version of Beckett's retrovirus. A teenage wraith girl who had been raised by humans was desperate to be rid of the need to feed on the people she identified with and took a dose of the retrovirus before it was ready. But instead of changing her into a human, it brought out more eratus bug charistics which made her a raging predator who had to be shot down like a dog (a really wasted opportunity IMHO) . Before Ronon killed her, she tried to feed on Sheppard and infected him with the retrovirus. He also started to change into a buglike monster, but he was never in danger of becoming an actual wraith.

I'm waiting for the episode in which someone in the Pegasus Galaxy actually does try to become a Wraith, to take advantage of the non ageing immortality aspect of Wraith existence. There have been plenty of people in human history who have had no problem with killing others to extend their own lives by magic spells and such.

One of Teyla's ancestors was captured by a Wraith scientist who did genetic manipulation on him and inserted a few Wraith genes into his DNA, supposedly for the purpose of making the changed humans easier or tastier to feed on. When the Wraith discovered that these changes gave the humans the ability to tap into the Wraith collective mind, the experiments were stopped and the humans killed. But a few escaped and some of those were given shelter by Teyla's people and left decendants in that community. But they weren't actually trying to turn the humans into Wraith.

We really don't know much about Wraith breeding and reproduction. We saw one teenage Wraith girl who had been adopted by a human "father" when she was about 6. She ate normal human food until she hit puberty and began to have the need to feed on human life engergy. We've never seen a Wraith infant. They could be born from eggs, the eratus bugs are, or they could be born like human babies. We've never seen more than one female on a hive ship. Perhaps the Queen lays many eggs that hatch into male Wraith soldiers. Or perhaps there are ships or planets where the rest of the females live and breed like humans. Or maybe the females were on the hive ships and we didn't see them. We don't know. It would be interesting to find out though.

As for the term personality, I think the wraith are people. They are dangerous, violent, predatory people, but people all the same. So are the asurians and the Gou'ald and all the other sentient alien species that SGC personnel have encountered over the years. Why O'Neill, Sheppard or anybody else should doubt that is something I don't understand. Species bigotry I suppose.
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Postby BlackAdder on Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:34 am

Thank you for the explanation, Kara S., clearly I missed a great deal. :)

Okay, now that makes sense. So the Wraith are a species or a "People" got it and againm thanks.

I still don't understand what happened to Ford though. He was half transformed, wasn't he? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just sincerely don't understand.

I'd appreciate any answers from fans that didn't basically skip all of last season because clearly, I've gotten the wrong idea lodged in my head and I'd appreciate an unlodging.

Thanks to any and all! :?
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Postby Mreen on Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:38 am

yup - I was just going to post all that. Wraith have a whole heck of a lot of personality, and I for one find them a much better enemy than the "I've been infected by a B-Actor" Go'ould stomping around, declaring God this and God that. (Except Ba'al. Altho his initial appearence was just scary evil tortorer, now that we've seen him down and out, and still smug and suave, I think he's much cooler. Even if he does like to twirl his mustache.) Even the Ori are the flames of B-Actors gone before them, tho some of their priests have got some personality. Wraith - now wraith are cool. Subtle, assured, intelligent, able to lurk in shadows, strike like stinging insect and wipe years from their victims as the agonizing screams disturb their other prey and set them running ...

Intelligent, technosmart, but driven by an instinct to feed on the only thing that gives them sustenence, human life.

The bugs, araithness bugs, however its spelled, feed on the life of their victim. The Wraith are decended from them, the bugs having fed on them so long that their descendents adapted to the human physiology, and eventually could not feed on anything else. Without humans they would starve. Some have speculated that the Ancients were studying the bug's physiology to gain some advantages from it, and accidently created the Wraith, but no one is really sure. But it would make a good story, so I'm sure we'll see that played out sometime.

Becket felt some pity for the species, caught in what he percieved as an unnatural state. He worked for years on a retro virus that would supress the araithness bugs traits entirely and create a human from them.

The one Wraith they knew that was eager to try it was a young teen raised by humans, killed when she took it before it was meant to be tested, turned into a violent bug creature worse than a normal wraith. (Completely agree with the waste of that character btw. They just cant wait to kill off anyone interesting, leaving nothing behind for the writers to use on down a year or two after the story. Stop wrecking all your cool toys! Just put them away so you dont get tired of them and you can playwith them later!)


Teyla is descended from the gourmet food experiments mentioned earlier.

*this is the part you want to know about*
Ford, to clarify, got hit with the adrenaline gland, an enzyme wraith instinctually inject into their victims just before they feed. The stinger in the hand, as they strike. This keeps the victim alive longer as their prey is having years sucked away, otherwise the humans would die before they got a really good feed out of anyone. A wraith died just as he started to feed on Ford, the body of the wraith was still pumping the enzyme into Ford for over 20minutes. When they finally got it off, Ford had so much in him that he was nearly psychotic. He was hyper, paranoid, addicted and angry.
Result: He felt no one appreciated the supersoldier he had become, stole the enzyme they had harvested to slowly wean him down, and ran off to "prove himself" to everybody.

Ford is still out there somewhere, juicing on that adrenaline rush from 'adrenaline-like' enzyme, killing wraith, feeding on their adrenaline glands, and with his merry Lost Boys in his hidden outpost.

(last seen,he had recruited a geek lost boy, and they kept some sleeping wraith alive in a little rustic factory, with more measured doses put into their food or injected as needed. Still not quite all there, but calmer than his other Super Ford moments)

Back to the Wraith.
Being descended from insects, we get the Queen of each hive. Since they lie in dorment honeycomb cells till awoken (opening twoparter pilot) I think we can pretty much take it for granted that they hatch - but the fact that Shepard alluded to curiosity over their reproducton methods at the end of season 2 and the nerdy scientists completely ignored the schoolboy remark in favor of playing with their cool wraith gizmos, I dont doubt that more revelations are coming up on that score (greater ones than - oh, yes, they hatch' I mean)

Basically, I'm just posting this repetition of the information out of enthusiasm for the subject <g>

hope you are less confused now ....
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McKay and Mrs Miller

Postby KaraS on Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:38 pm

Spoilers natch

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So, we have a plentitude of McKays. First we have Rodney's sister (er, I mean Meredith's sister. Why do parents do those things to their children?) a woman who really is kind of like her brother. She's very nearly as stubborn and has some of the same body language. She and McKay don't get along, mostly because McKay wanted to control her life and she didn't want to let him. So I suppose it's fair that she make his life miserable by telling his friends all his secrets and all the humiliations he suffered as a child. But it's kind of mean...

Then Action Hero Rod McKay arrives, leather jacket and all. He has all the cool and style that our McKay so sorely lacks. He's good at everything and has all the arogance of our McKay, just a little more poise. He charms everybod by using people skills that our McKay just doesn't have. He hangs out with Sheppard and hits golf balls into the water (tsk tsk, littering). He has everybody laughing at his jokes. He's everything our McKay always wanted to be but didn't know how. No wonder our McKay is freaked out, wandering around all defensive as he watches his sister and his double stealing his life. Poor guy.

Of course, it all works out ok in the end. But the ZPM is exhausted. Oh no! What will they do now? They really need to learn how to recharge those things. They have a bunch of dead ones. If they could recharge them, they'd be set.
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Postby Mreen on Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:10 pm

If they could recharge them, they could rule the universe. (and probably end up as bad as everyone else who ever tried it :P but, we wont go there. The writers are afraid to even let an extra ship survive -even if it belongs to someone else- I doubt they'll ever try that dark journey.*Note to writers, I think you are doing a great job -but you need to learn how to let something just end up into other-than-Atlantean hands when you're done rather than just blow up all the new toys and new characters!!)

I agree that Jeannie's deliberate revelation of every worst moment in Rodney's life was more than a little meanspirited, I suppose it was all that back burning anger over Rodney shutting out her whole family, never even meeting his own neice, combined with her extreme irriation about being shut out, as the experiment progressed, of the work based on her proofs.

What makes absolutely no sense to me, is that she didnt get Rodney's message 2yrs ago. It was the only part of the message that made sense, unless Ford decided to keep the very beginning where McKay just went on about facing the worst enemy and most horrible fate, etc. McKay said, on the tape, if you erase everything else, send this! She should have gotten the message 2yrs ago. Maybe nothing since then, so she didnt know how seriously to take it, but she should have gotten it.

And only Ford, who could be trusted to keep his mouth shut or he'd never end up in a top secret facility (or be given the job) would know about the message on the Atlantis side.

If someone was going to reveal the message at this late date, the only logical person would have been Sam, who decoded the messages Earthside. Sheppard having it, Jeanie never seeing it before ...just makes no sense. It really bothered me.

I could see the last scene played as Jeanie revealing Sam had given a copy of it, her playing it for Jeanie and talking about it - I dont know why it would have been delayed, unless Sam had just gotten some glitch fixed and told her the very delayed message had just been recovered.... pushing it, but possible, or same idea, Sam just giving her the disc, Jeanie only playing at the end, after the perfect brother Rod took off, because she was too mad to play it earlier.


I know its a little glitch, but despite the role of 'easy going get alonger' that Shepard plays (and we got to see the 'Rod' as Shepard with the other McKay which was fun too) it just seemed so wrong to see that message in his hands. Bugged the heck out of me. (Always does, when fallback dramatic roles replace logistics ... I mean, sometimes logistics are more important, they carry a lot more weight in the realism of a show than making sure the most typical character pours the oil on the water, or whatever the emotional point of the info was)
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Postby KaraS on Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:46 pm

I thought about that too. Perhaps since Atlantis wasn't destroyed and the staff weren't killed then the messages were never forwarded to the family members. Or perhaps McKay requested that his message not be forwarded. Baring his heart like that couldn't have been easy for him and since he didn't die after all, he might have felt that scaring his sister like that was unnecessary.

As for Sheppard having the message, he's nosy. Maybe he sought it out on his own. Since McKay didn't say anything classified it probably wasn't considered top secret and hacking into it would have been simple.
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Postby Mreen on Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:16 pm

I thought he was sincere about wanting to see her again, which was what his message said .. all the messages should have been forwarded regardless of the fate of the sender. They were personal msgs to their families and loved ones (except the whiner/backstabber) and their first chance in a year to let them know they hadnt forgotten the people back home. And it was very important to the crew that no one in Atlantis be able to view their msg, that once it cleared security it was the addressee's eyes only.

This bugged me so much I actually wasted brain power this glitch.. the only answer I can come up -yes, I did have to come up with one- was that perhaps Ford had only started destroying the Atlantean copies of the msg, going down the line, McKay's being last as he requested. Ford goes off on SuperFord mission, Shepard gets placed head of defence for real, and gets Ford duties to reassign, and discovers the msgs. Since Shepard has no family (and apparently not even close friends, which is out of character for a guy that gets along with everybody and openly prefers civilian over military social interaction, but thats what they wrote in that ep) and Shepard, it turns out, must be secretly jealous of all those who have someone back home. So, he (nosily) peruses messages in the wee hours, and discovers even Rodney has family that he worries about. That's right, Shepard is jealous of Rodney's social life back home.
(I dont write this stuff, youknow, I just deal with what they show us and lay out the logical conclusions)

As for the other end, McKay's msg did go last, so if they ran out of room, McKay's was the one cut off. Personally I find the odds, that his very short msg to his sister disappeared into the ether, pretty low. But its the only way she wouldnt have gotten it.

All in all .. this seems pretty far fetched, :? but its the only way I can even begin to picture that last scene with the msg at all. Hyperspace and parallel worlds are a lot more realistic sounding concepts than this layout ..but its all I got. Which is why mostly, I just prefer to yell at the writer/director for not fixing this mess before it got aired. :P
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Postby KaraS on Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:58 pm

You know, upon watching this episode again, I was struck by how McKay acted around Carter. He's much more obnoxious around her than around anyone else. He can be arrogant and insensitive to anybody but he seems to go out of his way to be condescending to her. Strange behaviour around a woman you're trying to attract.

Of course, Carted DID tell him once that she found him more attractive when she hated his guts than when she had begun to accept him as a collegue and, perhaps, friend.

So, we've seen episodes focussing on McKay, Sheppard, Ronon and Weir. Do you think that Teyla, the most underexplored character on the show, will get an ep this season too? Or Beckett? It would be nice.
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Postby BlackAdder on Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:46 pm

Thank you for explaining that, Kara. S., I obviously did miss something but your explanation makes sense.

I'm not sure yet if that's a good thing or a bad thing in terms of the series. The Wraith being a species. I suppose I thought there was someway to help or change them. On the one hand it leaves me with the feeling that "Okay, so they are permanently space vampires and there's no hope of redemption for them. They are a predatory species."

Still, it's good to know a bit more about them. Even if they are in the forever the enemy slot that doesn't mean there fails to be worth in understanding that enemy for the viewer.

I really do appreciate your taking the time.

My TiVo freaked out and whereas it recorded SG1 fine, the last Atalantis mysteriously switched to another program two minutes in. It happens from time to time but usually only in the DVD player is turned off.

Bottom line is I can only comment on seeing a very brief interaction with Sam. In it Rodney had a completely different and more grating personality than he normally does, and you're right, it seems to emerge around Sam.

Whereas I like the nod to continuity - that is how McKay acted around her on SG1 I'm not sure I get the point other than to put a big NO sign on any possible shippiness. I do like how McKay has this range.

One thing I forgot to comment on in the Wraith episode is that Rodeny was hilarious, barking out order and then gunning down a mouse.
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Postby KaraS on Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:52 pm

You missed McKay and Mrs Miller? Oh no! It was such a good episode. You must catch it as a rerun.

Yeah, McKay has more snark and ego about him than usual when Sam is around. Perhaps she threatens his self image with her competence.

And that scene where he was giving instructions to the soldiers was very cute.

"It's what Sheppard would say!" indeed.

And why would anybody give him an automatic weapon? He's as likely to shoot friend as foe.

As for the Wraith, they eat humans and that's that. But I wouldn't rule out cooperation with them forever. Who knows what might happen.
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Postby Mreen on Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:11 am

yeah, you never know what Becket's formulae might do someday ..tho it tore him up to see the hope he thought to offer turned into a weapon that had devastating results for him to watch.


McKay is an obnonxious guy, but he has always felt his behavior was justified by his monumental intelligence. The only thing that shakes him is when someone else solves a problem as fast as, or faster than he does, because that shakes the foundation of his very foundation of a right to exist (in his head)

I think McKay is only truly intimidated by Sam - other people he knows, in his heart of hearts, maybe smarter than him on somedays, but he knows he has an edge with them on others - Sam Carter is the only person that he truly knows is signifigantly smarter than he is. Of course, his best defense is denial, hence his constant condescension whenever she is around.

He's that insecure in her presence.
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Postby BlackAdder on Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:56 pm

Episode talk
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What a great one! Seriously, I loved this episode because it rang so true. One eyebrow raising part was that Ronan does still see Teyla. I'm not sure why that was and it didn't actually make a ton of sense but it worked. Maybe Ronan's mindset it changing slightly because in all of the team's paranoia they manage to break through it not for themselves, but for another character.

Beckett desperate and afraid, his worst nightmare is about the people under his care dying. I honestly felt for him.

Rodney's humanity showed up a lot more in this and I found that very interesting to see. As Becket is shown to be more and more delusionally focused on saving life (which was really sweet) Rodney managed to keep finding kindness towards his team and he lost a lot of his posturing. But when left alone, it fit that his greatest fear is that he will fail and actually sees failure where there is none.

Also, the plight of the SGA survivor on that planet was horrible. I knew there was no way they could bring him back. After all, he'd gunned down his team but to see that he sees super soldiers everywhere was just actually a bit wrenching.

Teyla and Jack's storyline was well done and I liked the Teyla can still see clearly because it makes sense with her slightly altered DNA.

I was sure that poor kid that Rodney was trying so hard to save would end up being dead and was actually really relieved that it wasn't. But I did love Carson's solution to dealing with his fears. He flees but drags along his patient. It was sad and sweet to see him at the end in the woods.

I get that the writers figured out that the actor playing Beckett is a really good actor and decided to use him more but have they at least made mention that there is another doctor on base? If not then maybe they better ask the Dedaleus to bring them one seeing as they keep sending Carson into the field.

It's great that the writers realized how good he is but they actually do need to explain that he isn't the sole doctor on base because otherwise, sending the non combat doctor off world is very dangerous. It would make a lot more sense to have military medics, not your sole doctor but that's sort of non gripe because I really enjoy seeing more of him.

I liked this one so much that I'm likely just to gush on here. I guess I should just say that I think that SGA does really well with team episodes and whereas character centric episodes have a lot of worth, at least SGA has the forumla down well for how to pace them.

It's another one of those "this has been done on nearly every show" kind of premises but that doesn't matter, what matters is whether or not it is done well. This one was.
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Postby KaraS on Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:19 pm

While I'm sure that McKay faces failure issues, his ego is a little fragile. And he did suffer some shocks last episode. But really, he and Beckett had the SAME fear, failure at their chosen profession.

It would have been more interesting if Rodney's claustrophobia had come into play, especially in that cave. Having him halicunate a cave in or being trapped and squeezed by the vines would have been more interesting, and truer to the character.
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Postby Mreen on Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:06 am

I dont know - I never took Rodney's claustrophia very seriously unless he really was in a place with limited air .. a cave like that doesnt have an air issue, essentially it was just a couple of rooms with a tree in the middle- I think he otherwise just mentions claustrophia in a not entirely subconcious attempt to gain sympathy. Rodney was the least effected of all the characters too, and the way it played on his biggest fear, failure, was clever enough that the audience couldnt be sure (at least not 100%) that he was hallucinating it or just really on the wrong track as he sometimes get.

Other people hallucinated teammates, enemies and patients, Rodney's hallucinations were confined to laptops :lol: .. kind of tells you where his sense of reality lay.

It was a good point about Rodney's humanity rising to the top when the pressure hits - Beckett's raised eyebrow when Rodney tries to comfort the apologizing patient showed a lot about Rodney's impression on his fellow Atlanteans 8)

It was really well done, all round, I stayed up and watched the midnight replay just to see it all again. (okay, sometimes I do that a lot, but I really had a lot of eps to put on tape/dvd for the broadcast impaired, so I took time out this time, just to see it again.)

One note: They have shown other doctors and medics back at Atlantis, whole teams of them if the occaision required, but Beckett is still the best surgeon, and more importantly, the relatable actor for the audience to identify with.:wink:
(yes I know, it wasnt a serious complaint, but I felt like typing a response ...must need sleep or something when I get like this... :roll: )
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Postby KaraS on Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:07 pm

McKay has mentioned his discomfort with small spaces on many occasions and it always seemed genuine to me. And when he was trapped in the jumper at the bottom of the ocean he had to deal with his claustrophobia "Wide open fields, think wide open fields." and there was nobody else there to be impressed.

And surely halucinating a cave in that would trap him underground would be more believable than seeing himself suddenly in a desert. And more interesting for the audience to watch than some graphics on a laptop screen.
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