My, how the characters have CHANGED!

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My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby tedbragg on Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:14 am

I finally saw Unrealized Reality and Coup de Clan, and couldn't help noticing how the characters are so different now.

I've been stuck with my season one DVDs. I haven't seen any episodes past 'Family Ties', so you can imagine how confused I am.

{EDIT by SunKrux: added spoiler space since this reveals something about Chi that happens in S4. Don't wanna ruin it for those not into S4 yet}



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Dargo seems so...CALM now. What happened? Even his voice is different. Chiana...wow, what a change. Not so much twitch, but now she goes BLIND? Poor thing was never innocent, but so much is different. I like it.

UGH. I've got LOTS to catch up on.

ANd then there's John, who now has this ticked off attitude it seems. I remember a John who spent more time running AWAY from aliens, not charging at them.

Areyn? Oh my...I'm really in the dark now.

Just my luck, I finally get Sci-Fi channel on my dish, and they up and decide to not show re-runs!! ARGGH!!
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby RedPill on Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:39 am

Yeah, I know. They were stereotypes back then. D'Argo was ANGRY. Aeryn was STRONG YET VULNERABLE. Rygel was HUNGRY. Zhaan was NICE YET STRONG. John was AMERICAN. Pilot was the only one that really appeared to be an original character, a worrier.

Towards the end of season one the characters seemed to break out of that, especially John. Bone To Be Wild is probably the episode when his development became more evident, when he witnesses Br'nee's shrinking machine and says "Great, my aunt had one". Since Kemper's taken over the helm, every character seems to have gone beyond their stereotypes. I think this progress wasn't planned, but just happened naturally during writing, almost accidentally.

Another change in season one is the writing. Season one has none of the wittiness, the Scream-like irony or the cool one-liners that pepper season two and three (I haven't seen four yet, so Chiana going blind is probably dropping a major spoiler). But I got hooked on Farscape on the episode Durka Returns, so season one IS inferior to the following seasons IMHO, but I love it all the same.
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Tree of Woe on Wed Aug 28, 2002 3:23 pm

Defending against the stereotypes thing...

D'Argo is really only "the angry, angry warrior" in the early part of the first season. After episodes like "Back and Back...", "TGIFA," and "They've Got a Secret," where his character gets opened up, he starts speaking more quietly as he comes slowly to have to rely on and trust the people around him, and as they come to figure him out and understand him more. That's not stereotyping, or switching writers... that was planned character development. Remember also that D'Argo reacts in anger to stress and personal frustration. A certain D'Argo-related story arc starting in late season two and running through early season three has D'Argo being more growly and screaming and angry than I've ever seen him in the show's history. D'Argo is in character as angry... they don't play him as a stereotype.

John was never portrayed as "the big blustery American" (in fact, if anything, he more closely fits that description now, with his gun-toting and throwing people up against walls more than he did in season one). He was the somewhat clueless, completely lost guy stuck in the middle of everything that any of us would be, stranded in an alien environment. He was, in a sense, the unspoiled innocent to a certain extent (up until his encounter with Scorpius, of course).

Aeryn's character was a lot more complex than "strong yet vulnerable." In fact, now I'd criticize that her character gets cheapened and flattened by a certain arc she's been stuck in lately involving another character on the show (judiciously avoiding spoilers here).

Zhaan's "nice but strong" side was only a small part of her. Zhaan could be truly nasty at times. Remember the red-eyed Zhaan? Remember hacking off Pilot's arm? Remember her "dark side?" But beyond that, Zhaan was already in the first season a presence, more than any other, that helped the other, more abrasive characters gel together. Her character and her role as the spiritual heart of the crew was far more complex than just the "nice strong one."

While Rygel gets used or abused as comic relief a bit too often at times, watching season one should already let you know there's more to him than three stomachs that never seem to fill up. He's a brilliant negotiator ("Exodus to Genesis"), capable of incredible treachery both for the benefit of the crew ("The Flax") and turning against them ("Family Ties"). He's been a sovereign who has ruled billions of subjects, and has been a tortured prisoner for nearly a century and a half, and he still carries his demons with him ("PK Tech Girl," "Durka Returns"). Even though Kemper is probably his most vocal advocate amongst the writers, Rygel was being handled very admirably before he "took charge," as it were.

I'm an avid defender of season one. Crichton is at his most approachable and understandable as a character then, it has some of the most incredible and wonderful stand-alone episodes, and plenty of humor.
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Durka35 on Wed Aug 28, 2002 5:42 pm

yeah, i agree totally with Tree here. The characters were only stereotypical to start off in the first few episodes. That was intentionally done to gain familiarity with them, and then about the 6th/7th episodes BAMMM everything was thrown upside down. Zhann revealed her darker side in Mad Scientist, Dargo showed his softer side in the same episode (playing an instrument to soothe Pilot).
Rygel was far better developed in the first few seasons, then any other season (in the first season he was selfish, good hearted, cunning, treacherous), in subsequent seasons they have limited his role to either being greedy or very strategic minded.

I think Season 1 was one of the better seasons (far better than 4). Most of the stand alone episodes were cool (DNA Mad Scientist, TOBM, The Flax, etc), the writers have seemed to lost their ability to make stand alone eps cool. Even back then their arc episodes were great (Bugs Life, RIB, DR, final 4)
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby IASA Agent on Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:14 am

I definitely agree with you here. I've caught up since, but starting out with the Season 1 DVDs and going to the end of Season 3 on TV is definitely one of the most wild jumps you can make. The characters and their relationships have changed in big ways over time... Aeryn goes from smacking Crichton around and pinning him to the floor to trying to learn English so she can talk to him in his native language, Chiana goes from trying to seduce John into helping her to kind of being a younger sister to him while probably still harboring some feelings for him AND D'Argo, and Rygel doesn't even (usually) get smacked around and accused of betraying them anymore. They have Scorpius and Sikozu for that.;)

Plus, of course, there's Crichton... guy wouldn't even carry a firearm in Season 1, was usually at least somewhat fascinated by the things they encountered, and was constantly lecturing Aeryn on how she should open up and let her feelings show, now he's happiest when he's a)drifting around high in space where no one can bother him or b) shooting/killing/beheading his enemies, and he threatens to cut people's tongues out when they start explaining what's happening to him. Things sure have changed here on Waltons' Mou... er, Moya.:)

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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Kev on Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:11 am

One of the best things that Farscape does is character development. For instance, by this time in season 4, I wouldn't want to see the same wide-eyed, innocent Crichton that we saw in season 1. Too much dren has happened to him since then for his character to have remained the same. Personally I liked his character more after he took a darker turn.

The only character I've been having a problem with in season 4 is Aeryn. This is probably because we don't know enough of what happened to her between the end of season 3 and the ep "Promises." I trust the writers enough to explain the changes in her character later when they reveal all that happened to her when she was away from Moya.
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby IASA Agent on Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:10 pm

>One of the best things that Farscape does is character
>development. For instance, by this time in season 4, I
>wouldn't want to see the same wide-eyed, innocent Crichton
>that we saw in season 1. Too much dren has happened to him
>since then for his character to have remained the same.
>Personally I liked his character more after he took a darker
>turn.
>

I like CrazyCrichton better too, just pointing out the differences.;) John really had no idea what he was getting into the moment he popped the hatch on his module and set foot on Moya.

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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Durka35 on Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:57 pm

i would like to see Crichton become more peaceful eventually (gain wisdom after his travels). To me now, he has become more of an Anti-hero like Tony Soprano. He tried to shoot the Ancient first without even finding out who he was (this was even before the ancient said he would kill C)
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby nebarigyrl on Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:26 pm

>i would like to see Crichton become more peaceful eventually
>(gain wisdom after his travels). To me now, he has become
>more of an Anti-hero like Tony Soprano. He tried to shoot
>the Ancient first without even finding out who he was (this
>was even before the ancient said he would kill C)

I agree. I've been working my way through season 1 again this summer. I love Crichton in season 1. His innocence, trust, exurburance, optimism and concern for others was infectious. Now he seems beaten down, cynical, macho, violent and self-centered. Almost polar opposites. And frankly I don't like him nearly as much. I really want him to find his center again. He's been to hell and back so I don't expect he'll ever be what he was but maybe he can at least regain touch with who he is at heart. Hopefully that has not been lost. He seemed to be grasping at it on the iceberg and with Zhaan in JQ.
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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Teak Drygon on Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:25 pm

> Now he seems beaten down,cynical, macho, violent and self-centered.

I don't see him so much as self-centered as self-protective. He's so worn out and hurting that he doesn't have anything left to reach out with. All his energy has to go towards keeping himself and those he loves safe, there isn't any to spare for anything else

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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby IASA Agent on Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:33 pm

>I don't see him so much as self-centered as self-protective.
> He's so worn out and hurting that he doesn't have anything
>left to reach out with. All his energy has to go towards
>keeping himself and those he loves safe, there isn't any to
>spare for anything else
>
>TD

I think a big part of the problem is he really doesn't have anyone to talk to anymore. In the beginning he had Zhaan (and his recorder, but he stopped sending messages to his dad and DK after a while), but she's dead now (the fact that everyone seems to blame him can't help much). He's having trouble opening up to Aeryn again, D'Argo's not really the type of person you share your deepest feelings with, and Chiana's usually got her own unique perspective on things. It is a little strange that he doesn't really talk to Pilot anymore, though... their last real scene they had together, Pilot basically told him he loved him, but there's been nothing since.

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RE: My, how the characters have CHANGED!

Postby Beyond_Hope on Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:14 pm

I really do not like how Aeryn has changed at all. I miss the kick butt Aeryn that we had in season 1-3. I miss the John-Aeryn action that we see during fights. It is just no the same anymore. I hope it all gets resolved in January because I just don't like Aeryn that way that she is.

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Sounds like you need to download seasons 2 and 3... :)

Postby HoHum on Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:30 am

email me if you wanna know WWWWH.
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Dargo's development from the Luxan Brute

Postby Durka35 on Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:28 pm

i find D'argo's change pretty interesting. In the first season he was very childish, angry, and well promiscous. Zhann pointed out that he was very young, especially in terms of battle. But slowly over the years he has been growing up. For about a year now he hasn't made bad choices in regards to women (learning from the world of hurt Chiana brought him). D'argo is changing his anger to beneficial use. In season 1, after he made the alliance with C in the Bloodtracker episode he showed that he was honorable. But then he was betrayed by John in LGM (who was not willing to go along with his plan), but even after that he has been the most dependable person onboard. He watches out for his friends, and puts everyone else's well being first, something that was not the case toward the beginning of the show.

If Zhann was the mother who died on the show, D'argo is growing to be the father. He may not be it to Jothee, but for everyone else he is taking up that role and watching out for them. THis was hinted at a couple times, in season 1 Bone to be Wild (the conversion about role reversals with Zhann) and then again in Self Inflicted Wounds (again with Zhann, he was no longer seen by her as the Luxan savage). He also is becoming the true general accepting command responsibility, no longer just a child with tattoes, .

Also, the biggest thing is that he is not as violent as before. In the first few seasons, he was willing to hurt anyone who challenged him (hyperage). But now he is willing to forgive a little bit easier. He extended his arm to help the PK who tried to kill him in ITLD, and he wanted to get only revenge on Macton and not kill him. I am really interested in finding out what Dargo did to Macton.
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Postby littlejamie on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:57 pm

I agree. They have changed and I love it. It is one of the things I love about the show is how the characters grow and change. How things are not forgotten later.

Dargo went from getting angry so easily, along wanting it his way to solve problems all the time. Being with alot of women. Wanting to kill Macton. To being a more reserved less tempered individual who was for the most part less childish except with the "Who's your daddy" interaction with John. He started trusting everyone more and only wanted revenge on Macton. Also he was with less women after his relationship with Chiana.
He even loves the responsibility of being the captain.

Chiana changes because she grows up fast. later on she still gets into trouble only it's not the same as when she first arrives, she does less stealing. She even goes blind. Being around everyone teaches her about love.

Rygel doesn't change too much. However he doesn't sell the crew out later on instead he plays a valueable part in later plans. Most noteably when they are rescuing Aeryn in "Fetal Attraction".

Moya And Pilot when they declare they want a spokesperson.

Aeryn I have mention on a different thread.

John went from the boy wonder so full of innocence in aww of each planet they visited. To a guy beaten down with winnona always at his side (like Aeryn). Having big responsibility with having to protect the galaxy and eveyone he cares for and loves because of the knowlegde he posseses. One good thing happened to him though he found true love. I guess getting lost can sometimes lead you to finding your heart.
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