Farscape storyline - possible spoilers

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Farscape storyline - possible spoilers

Postby rickshaw2 on Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:08 pm

I thought I might start a new thread on my impressions of the farscape storyline mostly because I didn't know where to fit in with other discussions and also I wanted some direct feedback on my ideas - feel free to agree or disagree, my feelings won't be hurt nor my head swell.

There has been some discussion on the continuity of some episodes - how did they know that? where did they get that? didn't they do this?. All of this hasn't been an issue for me. I pretty much accept a story as it is told to me, I even giggle and forgive the sight continuity errors - where the actor has forgotten which hand he has an article in between takes and to the viewer on each cut away the article keeps jumping from hand to hand. But all these discussions began to forment a thought in my mind. The story of Farscape isn't happening in real time as we know it. It is being told as a piece of the past.

Someone in the John Crichton's future is relating a story of his escapades to someone else and what we are seeing is the story as it is told. All those plot discrepancies are a result of this.
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Postby rickshaw2 on Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:37 am

(Sorry - had to break contact)

For instance, the big continuity issue concerns The Locket. How would any images/memories of this event exist for anyone (except Stark and Zhaan) if time had reversed itself. The memories of this event as they occur subsequently aren't neccesarily occuring to the characters themselves, they are in fact a reference point used by the storyteller for our benefit.

This can also be used to explain issues between Scorpius, Harvey and John. There were times (insert forgotten episode titles) when we were left to wonder how John knew of conversations between Scorpius and John neural clone and how Scorpius knew of John and Harvey conversations. (NB I may have some of these examples wrong - like I said I usually gloss over these errors during watching the show only to discover them here later.) Again, these could occur if the story teller was omniscient - or seemingly so - as he would be if he had gathered these stories together from the past.

This thesis can be used to explain the omission of time and events that are complexing to some of us. Often what occurs is the crew get into a scrape and have to limp off to some place to hide and lick their wounds. In the appearance of the show it seems that this occurs shortly after the altercation, although sometimes we are let in on a great passage of time related to us in possibly a short sentence of dialogue or even as brief as an aside. Some issues or events may not be pictorialized for us as the storyteller may consider them mundane. Certainly the time spent by Zhaan, Chiana and Rygel on the legal planet could have been omitted as it didn't pertain to the main characteres of the story or even much to the greater plotline of the series. The storyteller did deem it important enough to tell us (nice - good to see all actors/characters get screen time, flesh out their roles). The three months Crichton spent by himself on (insert forgotten planet from forgotten episode) were glossed over by the storyteller and we were left to fill in the blanks by the subsequent material - his relations with the planet's inhabitants, the crew's actions during the search.

This editing by the story teller can be used to explain one of the latest questions arising from a leap in time - where did he get the damn boat? It supposedly took the crew awhile to find the water planet, D'Argo relating that they would revisit the diagnosian they met to heal Chiana I infer to mean they had spent some time searching for information on how to heal Moya and Pilot and some time in searching for the water planet. Remember, this crew doesn't know where they are and doesn't know much how to do things (i.e. Uncharted Territories, no Leviathan Academy). In that time of searching I am sure John said, to himself and/or others " A planet of all water?! What if I want to go outside? I'll need a boat. Hey buddy (some alien of one of those planets he was searching), build me this thing I drew (a boat)."

Oops, have to go again. Impressions/depressions are always greatly appreciated.
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hey

Postby johnaskiew on Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:46 am

leave the conutie errors alone in a nice ending un fortunely they endded the show
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Postby rickshaw2 on Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:56 pm

After discerning that we the audience are listening to a regaling story of legendary creature from our distant past named John Crichton, we have to postulate on who is telling the story.

Stark is a good candidate as he has the ability to collect the accumulated stories of a variety of individuals. Depending upon his relative lifespan, he could have collected stories of John et al by crossing over many or all of the persons involved in the story. Assume the Stark can live for many, many cyucles and that at some end of an age when the collective civilizations that exist are about to embark on a new age of existence and Stark has lived his limit, he wishes to impart the future generations with a historical record of sacrifices and endeavours that brought them (us, as the audience) to this point. His main motive is educate us in our history so that we can learn from it (those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it) and our existence in this new age will not be as troubled as the last one. But - I think Stark is an arse. He is too selfish and self-centred to achieve this. He could be telling the story in the future but it would be for his gains only - to ingratiate himself to someone in power in order for some perks to rub off on him.

The tale could also be told as a major part of the culture of a few civilizations. Akin to the creation myths we are familiar with, Farscape could be a creation myth (still in process of course) of a new society either broken away from established human and/or sebacean and/or whatever Jool was (sorry I forgot). Precedent for this can be the sebacean society of Look at the Princess. It had broken away from the main branch of sebacean society and created its own. Ostensibly as the related races of John, Aeryn and Jool discovered their kinship a new society could have been created with Farscape stories being a part of their history. This scenario I like - but not love. The storyline could be spectacular with many plot intracacies harkening back to original Farscape stories allowing for future protagonists to experience what our friends have experienced.
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Postby rickshaw2 on Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:25 am

Not unlike the previous example, Farscape could be more of a family history, one that has passed down through the generations telling of great-great granpappy John and how he and great-great nana Aeryn found each other across the great expanse of space (you know I never did find out definitively whether John was still in our galaxy or not - I would assume though as wormholes wouldn't traverse galaxies, or would they?) and through great trials and tribulations came to this new land (where ever that is) and laid down the family roots. I also like but don't love this example. For any story to continue on as we enjoy it now, there would have to be a rebirth of sorts of the John and Aeryn characters but wouldn't have the same feel as Farscape. The new characters could team up to explore and encounter life but as siblings (or possibly cousins) it would be difficult to recapture everyhting from the past (remember of course Luke and Leia, shudder).

Also along this new civilization line could be a linking with that lost civilization that Jool decided to stay with (sorry forgot names and episode titles again). They were able to keep the peace with sebaceans and scarrans for millenia so if they are to do that again (they are back and peaceful detente between these two has evapourated) Farscape could evolve into a storyline involving them. Only partially like this one - such a tenuous link to those we know and love unless they come back to that planet or become more involved with its inhabitants which I don't really see.

Oh man. Out of time again. Will post more interesting scenarios soon.
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Postby Emram on Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:14 pm

With regard to the "how did Moya John know about things that happened to Talyn John", a lot of stuff could have come from talking to members of the crew that were on Talyn. But the most obvious place is the hologram message that TJ recorded for MJ, which we only saw the end of. TJ would have put everything vaguely relevant in that message, so that MJ could continue what TJ started, with as mauch relevant info as possible. Also, the message from Stark may have put a lot into his mind without him realising it.
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Postby Sazzmo on Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:55 pm

I had always wished that they would have later explained that that message was more than just a message, that stark had in a way taken a part of Talyn Johns Soul and then given it to Moya John...

A way of returning the two people into one person, with memories of both... So Green John from Moya remembers being with Aeryn, and being away from her as well...

I thought it would be a bit nicer, would actually mean that the baby was in a way more this guys than it is, since its Talyn Johns...
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Postby Urpling on Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:49 pm

Emram wrote:With regard to the "how did Moya John know about things that happened to Talyn John", a lot of stuff could have come from talking to members of the crew that were on Talyn. But the most obvious place is the hologram message that TJ recorded for MJ, which we only saw the end of. TJ would have put everything vaguely relevant in that message, so that MJ could continue what TJ started, with as mauch relevant info as possible. Also, the message from Stark may have put a lot into his mind without him realising it.


Ooooohhhh Gosh...murky waters, Emram...relying on anything Stark feels/does/says... Poor guys so self-involved at times and his emotions fly off the Richter scale...but then could we stay sane handling all the shadowy psychic stuff that he does...après the cycles in Scorpy's hands...face...chair...? *g*
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Postby Urpling on Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:55 pm

Sazzmo wrote:I had always wished that they would have later explained that that message was more than just a message, that stark had in a way taken a part of Talyn Johns Soul and then given it to Moya John...

A way of returning the two people into one person, with memories of both... So Green John from Moya remembers being with Aeryn, and being away from her as well...

I thought it would be a bit nicer, would actually mean that the baby was in a way more this guys than it is, since its Talyn Johns...


Sweet...sweet thoughts these.

But as a writer you got to stick in all that drahhhhma darling...all that tension...but not too much...yeah...we need the sweet stuff too...I grant you that...yin and yang...

(God I'm glad I'm not responsible for something that's so high profile...like an FS story-line...with all you damn smart souls watching...eeeek! You guys are so sharp, you're scary!)
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Postby Emram on Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:33 pm

I always wondered what Stark's message to Crichton was... they never actually pursued that at all, just left it. It might have been nice to have a small story line about that, finding out a bit about what Stark wanted to say. It seems a bit odd that as soon as the message was cancelled by Pilot interrupting, the whole thing was forgotten about.
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Postby Urpling on Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:00 am

Emram wrote:I always wondered what Stark's message to Crichton was... they never actually pursued that at all, just left it. It might have been nice to have a small story line about that, finding out a bit about what Stark wanted to say. It seems a bit odd that as soon as the message was cancelled by Pilot interrupting, the whole thing was forgotten about.


Well, it just shows you how gullible I am...watching Fractures just the once...I thought that the message was the posthumous hologram from black-t John to erm...t'other one (green-t John)...but you reckon it was something else...?

Doh! *g*
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Postby Emram on Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:16 pm

No, no, that message is the one I was referring to where TJ told MJ all the things he needed to know - the Stark one is the message that Stark gives Crichton from his mask - John started to watch a message from Stark and then Pilot commed him, interuppting the message.

I didn't dream that bit, did I?
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Postby Urpling on Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:27 am

Emram wrote:No, no, that message is the one I was referring to where TJ told MJ all the things he needed to know - the Stark one is the message that Stark gives Crichton from his mask - John started to watch a message from Stark and then Pilot commed him, interuppting the message.

I didn't dream that bit, did I?


Well...we are a pair, aren't we...?

I assumed, quite wrongly it seems, that the posthumous message was coming from the mask...derrr... It obviously isn't!

When I get my boxed-set for Season III in September (hopefully) , I'll remember to switch my brain on for that bit...if I can find the switch, that is... *g*
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Postby BrentBarrett on Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:37 pm

No, you assumed correctly. The mask provided the message from the other John. The message from Stark was just the pre-amble to it. Stark was telling MoyaJohn that he had a message from TalynJohn. So I don't think we missed anything at all from Stark.
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Postby BrentBarrett on Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:41 pm

On a related note, though, the only thing that struck me as a bit odd was that John, in his fantasy wedding, had Aeryn saying almost the same thing TalynJohn said when he died. I can't accept that TJ put that into his message via Stark to MJ, since he hadn't DIED YET! :) I also really, really doubt Aeryn would've told him his last words on Talyn, and she was the only one to hear them.

So I have to conclude it's either a helluva coincidence OR it's something he's always thought about saying when he passed away, which is kinda morbid.
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