Peacekeepers are from Earth !!?!?

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Postby thoth on Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:49 am

Well the idea was to reconcile what others had pointed out about the gap in the years between the Eidola visiting earth and the arrival of Egyptian civilization. Regardless of whether other civilizations flourished 27,000 years ago, the point still stands that it's rediculous to expect that specific symbol to survive unchanged from 27k years ago all the way to 5k years ago. Ockham's Razor doesn't call for the simplest explanation (that the years described matched our calendar). Ockham's Razor calls for the fewest assumptions. I think the idea that the single earthling symbol found on Arnessk also survived unchanged for 22k years on preliterate Earth is too big an assumption. The time-travel allowed by wormholes, however, allows us to rely on safer assumptions.

Besides, Crichton couldn't control wormhole travel when he first got swallowed up. Out of all the possible destinations in time and space, I think it would be too big a coincidence if the year he exited the wormhole was the same as the year he left.
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Postby Sikozu® on Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:47 am

thoth wrote:Regardless of whether other civilizations flourished 27,000 years ago, the point still stands that it's rediculous to expect that specific symbol to survive unchanged from 27k years ago all the way to 5k years ago.

Why ? You don't seem to follow my thought. There WAS a civilization 27000 years ago. If they had the symbol why would it be so impossible to keep it 22000 years ? The symbol is at least 7000 years old now. You think that in 20000 years it wont exist ? Or the cross of christ ? When you find something old and interesting you don't destroy it, you keep it. I'm talking about a realistic explanaition for a sci-fi :D after all.
If you don't belive me don't tell me this rediculous whormhole theory and call the director of farscape and ask him :)
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Postby thoth on Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:55 am

Sikozu® wrote:Why ? You don't seem to follow my thought. There WAS a civilization 27000 years ago. If they had the symbol why would it be so impossible to keep it 22000 years ? The symbol is at least 7000 years old now. You think that in 20000 years it wont exist ? Or the cross of christ ? When you find something old and interesting you don't destroy it, you keep it.


At least 5000, not 7000. And our knowledge of it come from a comprehensive archeological study of the era. Otherwise, if transmitted generationally, the symbol would gradually change in form and meaning over time, especially when the only sure way to maintain the same form is to chisel it out of a big piece of rock. As for the christian cross, two intersecting lines is hardly a very complicated thing to pass along from one generation to the next, and in fact, any good survey of religious symbols throughout history will yield all sorts of changes to the cross even with a straight cultural line through history.

I'm talking about a realistic explanaition for a sci-fi :D after all.
If you don't belive me don't tell me this rediculous whormhole theory and call the director of farscape and ask him :)


Well, the creators of Farscape have very often stated that the fans are smart enough to figure it out, hence my original posting of the idea. And still, my "rediculous whormhole theory" is a lot simpler than the idea that the symbol somehow survived unchanged during preliterate Earth for 22,000 years. As I mentioned before, with all the possible destinations in space and time the wormhole allows, it would be en enormous coincidence if the year John first entered the wormhole at Earth were the same year as when he left the wormhole in the Uncharted Territories. The simpler explanation is for the wormhole to have taken John both across the galaxy and across time.

Time travel with wormholes is already established as part of the rules in the way the Farscape universe works. There's no need to make it more complicated by adding some unknown Earth civilization that somehow existed before the agricultural capability that would be needed to sustain it.
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Postby Firecracker on Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:49 am

thoth wrote:. As I mentioned before, with all the possible destinations in space and time the wormhole allows, it would be en enormous coincidence if the year John first entered the wormhole at Earth were the same year as when he left the wormhole in the Uncharted Territories. The simpler explanation is for the wormhole to have taken John both across the galaxy and across time.


Except that TPTB made it very clear in the commentary of "Premiere" that John did not travel through time. Just space.

TPTB went out of their way to nullify any suggestion that John travelled in time - his first trip through the wormhole.

After that all bets are off.
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Postby thoth on Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:47 pm

Firecracker wrote:Except that TPTB made it very clear in the commentary of "Premiere" that John did not travel through time. Just space.

TPTB went out of their way to nullify any suggestion that John travelled in time - his first trip through the wormhole.


Darn. I wonder why they would put that constraining comment in there. Maybe they wanted to keep the premise simple? (It's the premiere episode, after all) Well, in terms of plausibility, they can easily change it so that time travel was also involved. It would be a kind of tragic discovery for John to find out that not only is he at the other end of the galaxy, but that if he spent the next 60 years trying to get to Earth without wormholes he'd find that his home was actually millenia in the past.
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Postby Sikozu® on Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:45 pm

thoth first off all I think you've missed my first post where I explained very clear that IN FACT sebacians originated from Earth. So stop rejecting the pure logic and watch that part of the movie until you understand it :) And second stop watching so much sci-fi and watch some documentary on ancient history or so.
If you want we can create a poll - what is more likely - that a symbol survived for 22,000 years OR an sci-fi character go back in time through a wormhole (wich technology was given to him by some ancient alien race) and somehow brought the symbol with him :shock: back to Earth.
And if you're so familiar with physics and technology did you know that BMW is constructing flying saucers since 1940 ? If you dont belive me there's a things like google, television, magazines and etc. where you can confirm that.
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Postby bwilli18 on Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:12 am

I'll play the old Eidolon here. If I could get the scarrans to see what they really want and focus on that, I can do the same here.

Thoth, you want the real world to be a rational place that is consistent and follows rules and you want the FarScape world to be real, because it's a cool place. But, it doesn't stick to consistent physical rules at all and thus is not real. The characters are real, but the world they live in isn't. They broke the speed of light. That can't be done, not even in theory. We call this the theory of relativity. In sci-fi we call it the theory of relatively: Sci-fi that obeys the law of relativity is relatively boring--you never get anywhere. I sympathize with your desire to conform the FarScape world to the rules of the real world and have it make some sort of sense. One, it makes this fantastic show seem more real, and two, it gives us something to talk about regarding this fantastic show.

Sikozu, don't pee on thoth's parade. We're all Thoth. In the immortal words of Mad (a fellow poster), we are all "mad of love" of FarScape. I sympathize with your recognition that FarScape is not about science and is wink-wink, nudge-nudge about explanations. What's real about the show is that people get hurt, hold grudges, make mistakes, act cowardly, get redeemed, fall in love and get hurt again.

p.s., I think beyond keeping the premise simple, there are more important reasons to set it in the present and not in the future. The events the audience sees are happening right now, not in some utopian (Star Trek) or dystopian (Blade Runner) future, thus giving the show a greater urgency.
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Postby ImperaTodd on Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:40 am

Honestly the idea that something can survive 22,000 years may not be all that crazy, the Australian aborigines tell stories of creatures that perished 20,000 years ago, the Hindu god Vishnu can be traced back at least 6,000 years to a Harappan sun deity. The Egyptian sun halo survives in Catholic and Eastern orthodox religious art. Symbols and oral traditions can survive an incredibly long time, the loss of information is considered by many anthropologists to be a trait of cultures that record their information in writing.

One more thing, a Portuguese physicist believes relativity permits FTL travel under special circumstances, even Einstein said it was not impossible just unlikely. I know his works well, and as Quantum Mechanics predicts anything is possible. I love the discussion by the way.
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