Johns wound above the eye

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Johns wound above the eye

Postby Kheldrion Dawn on Mon May 16, 2005 10:58 am

Huh?

Is it my imagination or is the small wound above Johns left eye in the same place as TalynJohns? Is this a subtle clue both Johns are reunited?
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Postby Sandworm on Mon May 16, 2005 11:24 am

yeah, it is roughly the same place....
hmm....
I wonder.
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Postby Firecracker on Mon May 16, 2005 5:21 pm

Possible.... Possible.

Throughout season 4 (and a bit at the end of Season 3), the writers dropped subtle (and not so subtle) hints that the two John's might be connected in some way.

And then the cut on John's head in PK Wars as well as the comment about the star being Aeryn's at the very end. All of these might (or might not) be clues that the two Johns are connected.

Personally I like the idea - seeing as I *think* it might have something to do with unrealised realities and Ennix and Stark crossing people over... but maybe not. :D
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Postby Tyvsha on Mon May 16, 2005 8:52 pm

Yeah I noticed the cut above his eye too. I don't think it is explained how John gets it. I don't know if there is any great significance to it or if it is just to make Fans go " ...wait a minute didn't other John have a cut above his eye when the wormhole knowledge was unlocked..." Talyn Johns was actually little more than a scar by that stage as it had mostly healed.Maybe TPTB just did it to see if we would notice. As to Aeryns Star, it is possible that John had been using the star as his reference point before he was twinned and so it would be known to the surviving John. Moya John does complain that Talyn John took his notebook with him.

Still and all it is nice to think of him/them being reunited.
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Postby BrentBarrett on Mon May 16, 2005 10:19 pm

Same place, and I doubt it means anything more than fate had always intended him to get a scar up there.. ;) Fate's a big theme in Farscape.
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Postby Firecracker on Tue May 17, 2005 3:01 am

Tyvsha wrote:Yeah I noticed the cut above his eye too. I don't think it is explained how John gets it. I don't know if there is any great significance to it or if it is just to make Fans go " ...wait a minute didn't other John have a cut above his eye when the wormhole knowledge was unlocked..." Talyn Johns was actually little more than a scar by that stage as it had mostly healed.Maybe TPTB just did it to see if we would notice. As to Aeryns Star, it is possible that John had been using the star as his reference point before he was twinned and so it would be known to the surviving John. Moya John does complain that Talyn John took his notebook with him.

Still and all it is nice to think of him/them being reunited.


Actually TalynJohn got his scar in "Thanks For Sharing" when he got blown up in that coffee shop.

And I am quite sure that John was using Aeryn's name as his center star in his charts long before his was twinned.... but as far as we knew this John never told Aeryn that... and in PK Wars (and one other time that I can think of) John has made a comment about a star as if he knew that Aeryn understood the reference.

It is a small thing. But taken in conjuction with the multitude of 'small' Talyn John references it does add weight to the conjecture that Talyn John and Moya John are more than biologically connected. When Aeryn says that she doesn't differentiate between the two Johns anymore I think she knows more about the situation then she is letting on.

It explains - to me anyway - why Aeryn came back to John in Promises with such a changed state of mind.
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Postby Kheldrion Dawn on Tue May 17, 2005 9:37 am

I even speculate if the two Johns were in some way empathically linked. That would surely explain better that the two of them played Rock-Paper and Scissors for hours without one winning. Also in my imagination the MoyaJohn somehow felt Aeryn and the other John together. This is hinted at when the Toon Aeryn talks to dying MoyaJohn (he knows they're together although theres no way he could know)

And this explains for me that he pursued this possibility against all odds. He felt the love through his link. Normal Guy who gets rejected again and again, pushed back and treated like dirt finally, who is a bit relationship-wise, at one point gets the clue and moves on. We don't harass women if they say back off.

Then there is Starks mask. I think there's more to the message TalynJohn sent his twin other than a Obi-wan ghost apparition.
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Postby Firecracker on Tue May 17, 2005 5:03 pm

Kheldrion Dawn wrote:I even speculate if the two Johns were in some way empathically linked. That would surely explain better that the two of them played Rock-Paper and Scissors for hours without one winning. Also in my imagination the MoyaJohn somehow felt Aeryn and the other John together. This is hinted at when the Toon Aeryn talks to dying MoyaJohn (he knows they're together although theres no way he could know)

And this explains for me that he pursued this possibility against all odds. He felt the love through his link. Normal Guy who gets rejected again and again, pushed back and treated like dirt finally, who is a bit relationship-wise, at one point gets the clue and moves on. We don't harass women if they say back off.

Then there is Starks mask. I think there's more to the message TalynJohn sent his twin other than a Obi-wan ghost apparition.


Starks mask is a distinct possibility. Remember he left it (again!) with John at the end of PK Wars.

Revenging Angel takes place right after Infinite Possibilities Part 2 and in RA MoyaJohn dies. He flatlines for a while - after his toon self flew into one of those toon wormholes and came a cropper. The storyline similarites to TalynJohn's demise are just to close to be accidental and with both MoyaJohn and TalynJohn dead at the same time.... empathic connection wouldn't surprise me.

It would also explain why John said in PK Wars to Staleek "cross the 'T's and dot the lower case 'j's." Another nod to Talyn John and his longterm significance to the storyline.

Mind you... this is all speculation and I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time that would have happened with Farscape.

I just think the writers love to plant clues and hints in their stories. Threads they pick up eons later in ways that entirely suprise us. And Stark and his powers have always fascinated me. We really have no explanation of what his powers are, how they work, why they malfunctioned in "...Different Destinations" when exposed to the time tear, and why in "The Locket" he was able to combine his powers with Zhaan in order to transcend time.

Seems to have something to do with time ...
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Postby scapecadet on Tue May 17, 2005 6:09 pm

I seem to remember reading in one of the interviews (was it with DK?), where the question of John's wounds came up - the answer seemed to suggest it was deliberate and meant for fans to pick up.
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Postby Kheldrion Dawn on Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Deliberate, you say.

So I guess this was a kind of wink to the fans of subtleties in this Space Opera type movie (Alway action, no time to breathe, like in Star Wars)

Still, the theories are legitimate.
When Firecracker mentioned Zhaan, I thought of another thing.

John and Zhaan shared unity. This means a part of Zhaans souls will always live in him. And this means both of them. So both Johns carried a piece of a powerful psychic users soul with them. Another interesting thought.

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Postby Firecracker on Wed May 18, 2005 5:05 am

Kheldrion Dawn wrote:Deliberate, you say.

So I guess this was a kind of wink to the fans of subtleties in this Space Opera type movie (Alway action, no time to breathe, like in Star Wars)

Still, the theories are legitimate.
When Firecracker mentioned Zhaan, I thought of another thing.

John and Zhaan shared unity. This means a part of Zhaans souls will always live in him. And this means both of them. So both Johns carried a piece of a powerful psychic users soul with them. Another interesting thought.

Oh, how I love to speculate!


And Stark! Zhaan shared unity with Stark....

Speculating is fun... :D
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Postby cat on Mon May 23, 2005 1:02 pm

I can remember reading somewhere that the place for the cut was supposed to be on the other eyebrow but ben apparently suggested swapping it as a nod to the fans :D :wink:
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Postby lovingfarscape on Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:10 am

i just realised something in pkw. When they are trapped in the scarren flag ship and the eildon dies, john says "stark u can do it, when u pass ppl over u take what they know" So when taylnjohn dies stark passes him over and gives his mask to moyajohn, giving all the infomation of taylnjohn to moyajohn
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Postby BrentBarrett on Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:47 am

lovingfarscape wrote:i just realised something in pkw. When they are trapped in the scarren flag ship and the eildon dies, john says "stark u can do it, when u pass ppl over u take what they know" So when taylnjohn dies stark passes him over and gives his mask to moyajohn, giving all the infomation of taylnjohn to moyajohn


I don't think that proves the memories were transferred. All John says in PKW is that Stark can carry the knowledge of those he passes on. He says nothing about Stark then being able to give that knowledge to others.

The Eidelons are a unique case, as Stark didn't just capture the memories of the older Eidelon; he captured his power. That power was then passed to the female Eidelon, and Stark lost all trace of it.

John knows Stark can capture the thoughts and memories of those he passes, as he's learned that from Stark (in his universe and the Bizarro Moya), but he doesn't know that Stark can then pass those on, as he has no knowledge of that (and, I believe, Stark can't pass those on easily anyway).

In short, no, I don't think John has TJohn's memories. In fact, this was asked of TPTB at last year's con, and I believe they also answered that John is John, but no memories were passed from one to the other. In other words, John will do what John would do, regardless of where he was or which John he was. Also, he would think of the same things, say the same things, and there's even a bit of fate when it comes to things like the cut above his eye. John is John is John... :) Nothing more.
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Postby Firecracker on Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:06 am

How about we agree to disagree on this point? I like my theory - and I have exhaustively substantiated it - but no one else has to buy into it. This is fiction after all.

I like exploring options. I like speculating. And I try not to make sweeping statements that suggest my interpretation is the only one that is valid.

It works for me. It might work for other people who follow my train of thought and who also ask why certain things keep pointing in a specific direction. What possible explanation could there be? I must admit - I don't buy the "Oh they just made a mistake". That answer works once, twice, thrice - maybe. Not dozens of times.

Thats all.

Leave us to our speculation. 'Cause it is fun. :)
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