I thought PKW was baaaaaaaaaaaaad...

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Postby Ritual on Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:39 pm

How could it be successful in deepening the character if the story seems to have been fabricated solely for the purpose of making Chiana a "bad" and "guilty" person? Not only was it out of character, but continued a very unfortunate tread of focusing solely on Chiana's sexuality instead of just giving her a story that would deepen the character, which failed in past eps that were supposed to be Chiana eps but barely had 5 mins of her in roughly an hour episode. Only a few break this trend (like John Quixote) but the few are few and far in between.
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Postby Up From The Depths on Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:53 pm

Ritual wrote:How could it be successful in deepening the character if the story seems to have been fabricated solely for the purpose of making Chiana a "bad" and "guilty" person? Not only was it out of character, but continued a very unfortunate tread of focusing solely on Chiana's sexuality instead of just giving her a story that would deepen the character, which failed in past eps that were supposed to be Chiana eps but barely had 5 mins of her in roughly an hour episode. Only a few break this trend (like John Quixote) but the few are few and far in between.


Well, Chiana didn't really become a more "bad" or "guilty" person following this spectacularly insensitive action of hers; so it wasn't really successful. What I'm saying is that it could have been a turning point in her character, taking her to all sorts of avenues; some "good", many "bad", though I would hope (in keeping with the spirit of the show) nothing that could so easily be dismissed as simply one or the other.

Out of character.....maybe. The insensitivity wasn't, but the cynicism was. I could easily buy that she would devastatingly hurt (emotionally) somebody in order to avoid such long-term pain to herself, and could just as easily buy that she would do that before the obvious, adult way to do it (i.e. telling D'Argo that he's moving way too fast and she's not interested in becoming a farmer's wife). That she would do that to someone who she otherwise cares a lot about? That was pushing it. I can buy that she can use sex as a weapon, but to use it against D'Argo at that time speaks of either a mean streak or a cluelessness about the nature of men that is otherwise not in evidence before. If they came into evidence later, then it would've been a turning point in her character.

Didn't mind the continuing focus on Chi's sexuality. I mean, what was the alternative; the Nebari resistance? (shudder) Sexuality was Chi's primary currency, weapon, and hobby...and that's the way I liked her.

Unfortunate that her screentime became minimal in season four, but that's one of the many ways that season four screwed the pooch. Some have complained that Chi's supposed "resistance" story arc was handed over to Sikozu; I don't have too tough a time imagining that in a Sikozu-less season four, Chi might have been cozy with Scorpius too, so maybe they're on to something.
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Postby Ritual on Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:00 pm

You make some interesting points. What I meant about sexuality was, by focusing solely on her sexuality detracted from focus on her as a character, and therefore lead to nill with any real character development. Chiana's ability to realize how to save Talyn and Moya during Moya's birth shows me that she doesn't lack the mental faculties to make intelligent decisions, and I'll never understand why Kemper decided that sleeping with Jothee is something that Chiana would do. :?
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Postby Emram on Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:09 pm

I think that sleeping with Jothee was exactly the kind of thing Chiana would have done, at that point in time. Feeling trapped by the pressure she felt D'Argo was putting on her, she reverted to her basic character archetype, which was to follow her impulses - a lot of people have similar impulses, but understand why following them is a bad thing to do. Chiana, at that point, didn't understand.

Following her break up with D'Argo, she grew up a lot, and was no longer the kind of person who would do that kind of thing.
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Postby Cattivo on Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:23 pm

Emram wrote:I think that sleeping with Jothee was exactly the kind of thing Chiana would have done, at that point in time.


I strongly disagree. I can easily see Chiana sleeping with someone in that situation in order to force a breakup, but only with a random person who didn't mean anything to her or anyone else - in effect a meaningless fling. I simply can't see her doing that with Jothee though, whom she had helped D'Argo reunite with and had heard and understood throughout their relationship how important Jothee was to him. D'Argo and Chi's conversation at the end of LATP illustrates this well by showing how much Chiana cared about this issue - enough not to screw it up in such a manner.
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Postby BlackAdder on Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:50 pm

I typed in a search for John Quixote and this is one of the threads that appeared.

In regards to the review posted by UFTD - a lot of time and effort obviously went into that and whereas I do not agree on many points, I do think that the writer has a certain flair - and several good points.

However, I think the fans of Farscape campaigned so hard precisely for the sense of closure the mini presented. In true Farscape fashion some of it doens't make a great deal of sense but then again, that is Farscape tradition. As in the case of Noranti who just appeared from nowhere at the end of season 3. We're given a vague reference as to where she might have come from and then she's omnipresent to the point of being annoying, in my opinion. Point being, part of what I love about Farscape is that everything does not track on a purely logical level. It helped keep me on my toes as a viewer and I personally always enjoyed the weird moment at the beginning of an episode where I'd think "Hey, did I miss an episode?"

I think the mini was a remarkable effort by both the writers and the actors to try and tie things up for the fans that had worked so long and so hard to see the series returned in some ways. It was far from perfect but it was a more satisfying ending than having Aeryn and John in tiny pieces. I didn't travel through four years with them to see them end up as dust buster material. The mini solved that problem for me.

They did try to please everyone in a small amount of time. Sikzou's spy storyline was truly the one that bugged me that absolute most. I think a scene must have been dropped because it made almost no sense whatsoever.

Grayza's pregnancy made me want to pluck my eyeballs from my head at the implication - and to this day I have no idea why that was included.

But overall I was simply happy to have everyone back again. Enough threads left dangling for future possibilities (i.e. D'Argo dying offscreen, the horror that was Grayza's belly, the unlikelihood that the Scarran's would honor a peace agreement for any length of time...etc.)

In terms of Chiana's character development throughout the series I have to admit I think that the overt sexuality of the character at times obscured all else about her. Gigi Edgely always played it well but in some ways it marganilized her growth. Season three Chiana opposite the whiney debutante Jool made Chi seem finally to be growing up. Season four, without that comparison I thought she flounder terribly. Along came John Quixote and I thought - finally! Growth and brains for Chiana.

It didn't really play out that way and I was particularly dismayed with her turning out to be "Karen Shaw" - there was something oddly predatory about that move with the younger John. As if she was staking a claim to him that no other person could share. It didn't strike me as being about her impulsive nature and free sexuality. That moment in Kansas seemed calculated and sort of a character set back to me.

Still, Edgely was always brilliant in the role and Chiana remains one of my favorite characters - considering some of her actions that is no small feat and a huge nod to the abilities of the actress.
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Postby BrentBarrett on Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:20 pm

BlackAdder wrote:Grayza's pregnancy made me want to pluck my eyeballs from my head at the implication - and to this day I have no idea why that was included.


On the off chance you never came across this, the actor (Rebecca Riggs) was pregnant in real life, so they decided to just make Grayza pregnant. One could conclude, therefore, that they didn't intend Grayza to be pregnant from the start, but given the real life circumstance, they decided to make us all want to pluck our eyes out at the implication. ;)
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Postby BlackAdder on Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:45 pm

Thanks BB :) I had read that and then gotten a mixed message when I saw a post elsewhere denying that Riggs was pregnant at the time. I'm glad for Riggs (both in the "Congratulations" department and in the "Hey, she got paid!") ...and still sorry for my eyeballs! Our collective eyeballs.

Even as my mind assured me that this was in all likelihood the case - I still found myself wishing "Oh crap, couldn't they have pulled the old trick of shooting her only from the shoulders up?" So yeah, I think it was a case of "Congrats Rebecca! (cue maniacal laughter) Whoa will this ever frell with the viewer's minds."

To their credit they did include random PKCommander as the alleged father but seeing as she killed him without compunction it was a case of "Oh frell me dead! They're implying that...no, no...mustn't complete that thought lest the act of thinking it makes it so." ;)
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Postby Firecracker on Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:43 pm

BlackAdder wrote:Thanks BB :) I had read that and then gotten a mixed message when I saw a post elsewhere denying that Riggs was pregnant at the time. I'm glad for Riggs (both in the "Congratulations" department and in the "Hey, she got paid!") ...and still sorry for my eyeballs! Our collective eyeballs.

Even as my mind assured me that this was in all likelihood the case - I still found myself wishing "Oh crap, couldn't they have pulled the old trick of shooting her only from the shoulders up?" So yeah, I think it was a case of "Congrats Rebecca! (cue maniacal laughter) Whoa will this ever frell with the viewer's minds."

To their credit they did include random PKCommander as the alleged father but seeing as she killed him without compunction it was a case of "Oh frell me dead! They're implying that...no, no...mustn't complete that thought lest the act of thinking it makes it so." ;)


Eeeeevvviiiiiiil... hehehehehehe

Has anyone ever mentioned to you that David Kemper et al are eeeevviiiil?

And just to frell with your mind some more - look at the tattoo on Grayza's belly. That is very close (if not identical) to the Eidelon symbol. Now - what could that mean do you suppose?

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Postby Sandworm on Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:49 pm

that's easy!
It's left over from when the PK's worked for the Eidolons.
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Postby Wandaful on Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:19 am

BlackAdder wrote:Thanks BB :) I had read that and then gotten a mixed message when I saw a post elsewhere denying that Riggs was pregnant at the time. I'm glad for Riggs (both in the "Congratulations" department and in the "Hey, she got paid!") ...and still sorry for my eyeballs! Our collective eyeballs.

Even as my mind assured me that this was in all likelihood the case - I still found myself wishing "Oh crap, couldn't they have pulled the old trick of shooting her only from the shoulders up?" So yeah, I think it was a case of "Congrats Rebecca! (cue maniacal laughter) Whoa will this ever frell with the viewer's minds."

To their credit they did include random PKCommander as the alleged father but seeing as she killed him without compunction it was a case of "Oh frell me dead! They're implying that...no, no...mustn't complete that thought lest the act of thinking it makes it so." ;)


I loved the fact that they showed she was preggers...... and at the time I watched it I sorta thought that maybe she might become a tad maternal, especially towards Aeryn............er.. but NO.......... well maybe at the end anyhoo....... :lol:
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Postby DCscaper on Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:09 pm

Cattivo wrote:
Emram wrote:I think that sleeping with Jothee was exactly the kind of thing Chiana would have done, at that point in time.


I strongly disagree. I can easily see Chiana sleeping with someone in that situation in order to force a breakup, but only with a random person who didn't mean anything to her or anyone else - in effect a meaningless fling. I simply can't see her doing that with Jothee though, whom she had helped D'Argo reunite with and had heard and understood throughout their relationship how important Jothee was to him. D'Argo and Chi's conversation at the end of LATP illustrates this well by showing how much Chiana cared about this issue - enough not to screw it up in such a manner.


Well, who would she have had a meaningless fling with? Rygel? John? It's been a long while since I watched that episode, but weren't they on the ship and in transit when she had that fling? John was clearly interested in Aeryn at that point in time, so there would be no luck with him.

I think what makes it "in character" for Chiana is the fact that she slept with the first person she had at hand, in order to end the relationship. She was in such a panic about becoming a farmer's wife that she wasn't thinking about who it was or what the consequences would be. She just wanted out.

As for Grayza's pregnancy, I am so happy they worked that into the plot of PKW. I love the fact that there's that potential plot thread hanging out there for the future.
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