The Birth - minor spoiler

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The Birth - minor spoiler

Postby scapecadet on Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:21 pm

BTW - am not sure if it is still necessary to put spoiler information in the title...

I know there has been a very extensive discussion about the birthing scene, so I will not go there here, but has anyone noticed that when Chiana is turning the baby from breach position, she seems to be reaching into the side of Aeryn's stomach.., but I am convinced that the access is in the same place as in humans...

Just nitpicking..
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The Birth

Postby scaperbrit on Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:06 pm

I'm not a midwife but I am pretty certain that to rotate a baby from breach to cephalic position the pressure is external, the hands don't go internally at all. 8-[ . I think it is more a case of persuading the baby to turn itself. :)
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Postby BrentBarrett on Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:28 pm

Yeah, there are midwives over on Kansas, and they say that what Chiana did is something that's really done (and its called an "external vision" because, well, it's from the outside... :) ). They also say that it seems silly someone with no experience doing it can do it, but then someone else pointed out that Chiana can now see through things, so maybe she could see the little guy inside Aeryn's belly?
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Postby CdnFarscape on Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:42 am

Makes sense, I guess... was wondering about that myself... but with Chi's newfound "x-ray vision" who knows what she can see through...

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Postby Up From The Depths on Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:23 am

Until they showed her pushing on Aeryn's belly from outside, I'd assumed that Chi got the job because she has the narrowest arms. :shock:
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Postby johncrichton411 on Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:58 am

yeah someone had to explain that to me too.. that she wasn't exactly reaching umm up in there hehe
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Postby scapecadet on Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:03 pm

Thank you all, I can accept this explanation. It was bothering me a little, so am glad I can lay it to rest now.
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Postby Dan Forever on Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:38 pm

I thought it looked like she was breaking the neck of the little guy doing that :? But perhaps it just looks worse (and sounds worse, what with Aeryn Screaming) then it really is...
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Postby TINemo on Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:22 pm

Yes. an external version is an attempt to move the baby from breech to vertex position by applying(considerable) pressure from the outside. It is a procedure sometimes attempted if the breech is not well down into the pelvis since a breech delivery is significantly more dangerous even in experienced hands.

However it is not done lightly nor should it be attempted by novices. Among other dangers, one could rupture the uterus which is very thin stretched out muscle by then, you could cause the placenta to abrupt(ie peel off the wall of the uterus) and or you could entangle the baby in its cord even more than it already is.

Also it can be extremely uncomfortable for the mom. I've heard screams every bit as bloodcurdlng as Aeryn's during attempts.

Personally I would never do one, nor would I let anyone do one on me, But since a C section was not an option in Aeryn's predictament, nor was there anyone experienced in how to deliver a breech(there is a specific technique that is almost opposite of a vertex baby---for. Ex the face must be down and delivered by extension rather than flexion) so the writers opted for a dramatic extra flourish that made many of us cringe.

Even stranger is transporting thruough the *tissue transporter* gizmo of a near full term fetus and its placenta from one person to another. That one you will NOT see in real life.
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Postby BrentBarrett on Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:45 pm

TINemo wrote:Even stranger is transporting thruough the *tissue transporter* gizmo of a near full term fetus and its placenta from one person to another. That one you will NOT see in real life.


Agree, but it wasn't near full term at the time. It was at the end of the first quadmester, so 1/4 of the term. The device was designed to work at that stage, so I don't think they did it any later than that.
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Postby TINemo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:11 am

Guess that depends on what a quadmester of a geometric pregnancy is.Rygel was complaining of the baby being huge and Aeryn had a term(7 poundish) baby within hours of the transfer. That's some growth rate.

And while we're picking the story apart----Rygel greenblooded Hynerian that he is would be DNA incompatible for a human/sebacean fetus. Also supposedly the fetus is in one of his three stomachs(not in the abdominal cavity) where one would think it was subjected to stomach acids and other digestive juices--unless he can turn one stomach off?

Also the site where the placenta implanted would be subject to arterial bleeding when the placenta was removed. Rarely an abdominal pregnancy occurs in humans, even more rarely it grows to viability(24 weeks plus) with the placenta attached to the liver or bladder or whatever. Obviously the baby must be removed surgically and again the site of placental implantation is subject to massive bleeding. Unlike the uterus which is made to clamp down with strong figure eight muscles to clamp down on the arterial sites, other organs can't do that.So the mother is at great risk.

In 30 years I have never been present for such a delivery but 4 occured in the US in one year according to the literature.

Anyway the whole scenario is implausible, but hey! it's Farscape and we love it most of the time.
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Postby BrentBarrett on Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:09 am

TINemo wrote:Guess that depends on what a quadmester of a geometric pregnancy is.Rygel was complaining of the baby being huge and Aeryn had a term(7 poundish) baby within hours of the transfer. That's some growth rate.


It wasn't hours. I estimate a few days from the escape at Arnessk (where the baby was re-implanted) to the delivery on the water planet. It's hard to tell, but they couldn't make that trip and pause long enough for John to take a trip in a wormhole in hours.

TINemo wrote:And while we're picking the story apart----Rygel greenblooded Hynerian that he is would be DNA incompatible for a human/sebacean fetus. Also supposedly the fetus is in one of his three stomachs(not in the abdominal cavity) where one would think it was subjected to stomach acids and other digestive juices--unless he can turn one stomach off?

Also the site where the placenta implanted would be subject to arterial bleeding when the placenta was removed. Rarely an abdominal pregnancy occurs in humans, even more rarely it grows to viability(24 weeks plus) with the placenta attached to the liver or bladder or whatever. Obviously the baby must be removed surgically and again the site of placental implantation is subject to massive bleeding. Unlike the uterus which is made to clamp down with strong figure eight muscles to clamp down on the arterial sites, other organs can't do that.So the mother is at great risk.

In 30 years I have never been present for such a delivery but 4 occured in the US in one year according to the literature.

Anyway the whole scenario is implausible, but hey! it's Farscape and we love it most of the time.


No argument there at all. It was stupid. But funny, so it's okay I guess. :)
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Postby TINemo on Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:22 pm

Yes, Kemper and Froon et al have always said they don't want to get caught up in the technacalities or too much technobabble.

It's fiction and mighty doggone entertaining fiction too.

I just like to nitpick for the replies it brings.
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Postby Emram on Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:09 pm

I like things to have a semi rational, semi plausible explanation, but would hate that to stand in the way of a good story!

Here's another one. Look at young Scorpius, before he joined the Peacekeepers - his head was huge and lumpy. How did it return to a vaguely normal Sebacean/Human size? I didn't worry about it, though!
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Postby yotzintheuk on Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:51 pm

Hi all, this is my second posting so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes with this but...

Regarding the pregnancy - How did Rygel manage to carry a 'living' baby when that baby must have been crystalised along with John and Aeryn, but since Aeryn was not pregnant when she and John were reconstituted then the baby must have still been in a crystalised state inside Rygel's stomach. Curious. :(

Sorry to nitpick, I love FS but this little gaff did seem a bit obvious to me. Any suggestions?
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