Official Peacekeeper Wars general comments/discussion thread

This forum is specifically to discuss anything to do with the story of the mini-series. <b>This forum contains SPOILERS!</b>

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Postby Havisham on Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:44 am

I loved the mini-series but there were bits that I hated and there were bits that I thought were awesome. For instance, I thought that the war resolution was probably the best scenario in the Farscape galaxy to end all the deaths and suffering. The wormhole weapon should have been unleashed earlier though. It probably could have prevented D'Argo's death, which is just one of the things that I HATED about the mini-series. Why did they have to kill him off?

Part I left me feeling great and demanding to see more. Part II left me feeling like dren, like this truly is the end for our beloved "space opera." They've killed off four well-liked characters and ended it with "And they lived happily ever after." Where do we go from here? It can't possibly be the end.

Aeryn sort or sums up my feelings on this matter, "No matter how wonderful this is, I will not accept it as a tradeoff for losing" Farscape. :cry:
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Postby Reido on Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:48 am

When I read one of the reviews, Dani, there was something I didn't agree with... but now I can't remember which part or what exactly it was! :oops:

Maybe I'll remember eventually. *scoots off to try and figure it out*


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Postby Reido on Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:09 am

Found it! :D

From the review of PKWars, Part 2
The only characters with a major role in "The Peacekeeper Wars" that perhaps weren't fully developed were the Eidelons. While I liked their introduction, and the story behind them, I do feel that in the end, their involvement was a little peripheral. They were the trigger for many of the events in the story, such as the whole journey to Arnessk and back, and yet in the end they weren't able to force their peace on anybody. I like what that says in terms of the story, since John had to make the Peacekeepers and Scarrans see why peace was for the best and was so important, as opposed to having the ideals forced on them by the Eidelons. It's just that I can see why people might feel that aspect of the story was a little under-developed and that in the end they didn't matter as much as they should have.


Okay... now, Dani, this isn't me telling you how to do your job (heh!), or telling you that your review is bad (I actually enjoyed reading the bulk of your reviews)... but I think you misunderstood something about the Eidelons (is that the official spelling?). They aren't there to force peace on anyone--they're there to allow negotiators, or whatever else, see reason. The power of the Eidolons is to cool down the passions caused by hatred and war so that two opposing sides can work out their differences peacefully. They aren't forcing anything on anyone, other than a sense of calm and serenity and reason.

And as such, the head evil-nurse--I mean, Eidolon (;)) does exactly what she's been set up to do throughout the two parts. She sits there with Grayza and Staleek, allowing the both of them to see reason and understand, better, the common good.

So... in my own humble opinion, I think the Eidolons were worked perfectly into the ending, exactly as they had been set up to do since the beginning (heh, after several of them get shot in the head and blown up; I had been beginning to wonder if there were going to be any character-Eidolons left by the end, after three of the four we get to know get killed).


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Best Lines in Series

Postby launchpad on Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:58 am

As far as the mini-series goes, it was OUTSTANDING!

The funniest line:
"get your own fantasies, they're having MY baby!"

But all-time best line is when Kent McCormick says
"Corned beef on Rye for me."

It has me ROFL every time I see it.

Either that one or when Chi admonishes Noranti for not paying attention and calls her "wrinkles", but Noranti ANSWERS to it.

What are some of your favorites?
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PKW...my thoughts first...

Postby Chi_fi_Eagle on Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:43 pm

Before reading (other than Dani's review) and still not home from vacation (typing at my nieces in NC) I thought I would post my initial thoughts here then read later (I thought some older scapers would be wondering about my cleaned initial thoughts...yes you Susan are in that mix)...
here goes...written the morning after while still on HHI SC

WOW!!! writing this overlooking Broad Creed on Hilton Head Island I feel so at PEACE! The morning after "Farscape PKW" and all I can say is, The Universe Feels at Peace! Four plus years, my favorite episode "Family Ties" and a saga's ending showing the FORCE OF FAMILY to being a vehicle to peace! If this was Kemper's original ending to this saga I travelled, I COMMEND HIM! :wink: :D In tears watching John and Aeryn and Little "D", all I could feel was Peace! I cannot imagine (well yes I can hehe with a smile on my face) where my (yes "my" because Farscape created a "family" for me) Farscape life will go from here and truthfully it does not matter (well yes it does as long at Farscape continues), the ride to this ending was truly worth it!!!!! :D

Some may consider this ending "campy", however from the viewpoint of this cynical, pessimistic, scaper who LOVES endings, I must say WOW! They actually did it, gave me an ending that I feel is fitting and Claudia Black was right in NY at the Last Farscape NY con talking how she felt John/Aeryn would and should end up and if felt really GOOD!

Thank you David Kemper, Rockne O'Bannon, Brian Henson, Guy Gross and all the actors and technicians who made this possible and all that is left for Farscape is three words that brought so much angst almost two years ago "to be continued" :wink:

done in PA

PS: I agree with you Dani, whatever flaws that may have existed, the production, thread completion, flow and overall good feeling the mini gave me...I would give part one and two 5 out of 5 and cannot wait to get home and watch them over again so I can once again bring myself to tears at the ending of a Farscape episode.
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great miniseries

Postby AgentSmythe on Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:37 pm

Great ending for the series, and now the door is open for future projects that are much simpler (although I don’t know if that is good for fascape).

6 Main character have died – Zhann, Crais, Talyn, and now Jool, Sikozu, and Dargo. Wow. I said in part one that I was concerned that dargo and chiana may actually be dead, because I had a feeling that the creators were paring down the crew. Well, I guess my fear was validated. I guess at this point I have seen too much death in this show, that even losing Chiana would be too much (not that I like her character still (way OTT), but she and Rygel had a good scene where he said she does care for him). So only Rygel remains as the original prisoner on Moya. Hopefully, we have seen the last of farscape death for a long while.

There was symmetry to Akna’s dead, she was killed by Aeryn and John killed her mate.

As far as I can see, there are only two points that have not been resolved with any decent explanations (1) the Nebari plotline (2) Noranti’s purpose on the ship (I think she is the only character not well developed in terms of plot/purpose). Maybe they can integrate this into any future miniseries. Mystery is good, but if they drag it too long it starts becoming incompetence (at least in terms of Noranti, the Nebari can easily be made into the next saga). At least Stark has found peace, and his glowy face is “normal” now (nice effect to show the change in him).

Reido, I think Dani (and I) were expecting a grander show of peace by the Eidolons. How can we truly believe that the peace will last, if the people not at the table are not influenced and if the participants are not affected on a long term basis (as shown by Staleek). Remember, the original peace lasted 5000 generations, there has to be more to the Eidolons abilities (maybe the longer you are in their presence, the longer the effects last?)
There is a dichotomy to the Eidolons and the Nebari (as there was with the PKs and Scarrans in terms of war), the Eidolons bring peace by allowing rational thought, the Nebari seek peace by conformity/suppression.

And they did put Einstein to good use (the blackhole amazing!) But Sikozu was not fully developed, they needed a few more scenes, I am sure it is in her personality to sell them out, but I don’t think they justified it (and farscape usually is good at making you feel a betrayal, here it was a little empty)

And I happy they brought the dark nature of the crew back in part 2, that was sooo true to the show. Crichton’s decisions were heavy/possibly evil and you felt it. And I guess by having the wormholes weapon shown it gives a valid reason to bring the parties to the peace table and allow for the Eidolons to work their magic (as opposed to being a contrivance, and the death of Ahkna helps quiet the warring Scarran factions). Although I wonder how this will all play out if the Nebari go on the offensive?

I am surprised that there are no discussions on how ‘bizarre’ or ‘gross’ actions were, that seemed to a huge topic in season 4 and as far as I can tell it still was there.
Happy with the ending, all is at peace… just the right time for a nightmare to be released in the UT.
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Postby Dani Moure on Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:25 pm

Reido wrote:but I think you misunderstood something about the Eidelons (is that the official spelling?).

As far as I know; it's the one Sci Fi have used.

They aren't there to force peace on anyone--they're there to allow negotiators, or whatever else, see reason. The power of the Eidolons is to cool down the passions caused by hatred and war so that two opposing sides can work out their differences peacefully. They aren't forcing anything on anyone, other than a sense of calm and serenity and reason.

I totally disagree; they are forcing their peaceful nature on others. It might be for the greater good or whatever, but they are still doing it. Even before the war, the Scarrans have always been brutish, dominant and pretty evil in many ways. It seems to be their nature. Then watch how Yondalao affects Staleek, and how Staleek reacts after he is dead. He's clearly had the influence forced upon him, even if it was by appealing to certain aspects of his character and the goals he wants.

And as such, the head evil-nurse--I mean, Eidolon (;)) does exactly what she's been set up to do throughout the two parts. She sits there with Grayza and Staleek, allowing the both of them to see reason and understand, better, the common good.

Huh, when did that happen? She's seen as the negotiator-type when Grayza and Staleek (somewhat reluctantly) stamp the treaty, but that's it. They'd already been convinced that peace was a better solution by Crichton and his use of the wormhole weapon. The Eidelons may be able to help sustain it or whatever, but that wasn't the initial premise set for them being involved.

So... in my own humble opinion, I think the Eidolons were worked perfectly into the ending, exactly as they had been set up to do since the beginning (heh, after several of them get shot in the head and blown up; I had been beginning to wonder if there were going to be any character-Eidolons left by the end, after three of the four we get to know get killed).

That's cool, I'm sure you're not the only one. I just don't think it was fully realised, and that their importance was a little over-stated. Alas, I expect a few things like that when such a big story is condensed.
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Re: great miniseries

Postby Dani Moure on Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:29 pm

AgentSmythe wrote:6 Main character have died – Zhann, Crais, Talyn, and now Jool, Sikozu, and Dargo.

Sikozu is not dead (yet)!! She's clearly alive in the final scene with Grunchlk, and though the planet may have been swallowed, I don't doubt she escaped with some Scarrans or something.

I am surprised that there are no discussions on how ‘bizarre’ or ‘gross’ actions were, that seemed to a huge topic in season 4 and as far as I can tell it still was there.

Bizarre and gross in what way?
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Re: great miniseries

Postby PCK3 on Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:27 pm

AgentSmythe wrote:As far as I can see, there are only two points that have not been resolved with any decent explanations (1) the Nebari plotline (2) Noranti’s purpose on the ship (I think she is the only character not well developed in terms of plot/purpose). .


Of course I can turn the conversation around to Scorpius...
I seem to recall Scorpius saying, in the end of "Bad Timing", to Caption Braca that the next time they see John and the others to bring the cook back. Hmmmmmm... Makes you wonder who the old women is, perhaps a spy for Scorpius. Recall if you will the end of "Dog with Two Bones" were we first meet Grandma. Moya's crew had just defeated Scorpius and destroyed his carrier. Scorpius aware that Criction will never willinglee hand over wormwhole knowledge, and that his time with Graza shall not be pleasent had to have a back up plan. Now the old women was one of many saved by John and the others, however the only one who wanted to stay? I betcha that the old women could be of an ally to Scorpius. She does have some interesting character flaws. Perhaps to lead us off her trail. As a women of peace and medicane, however she was all to eager to get John's mind off of Areyn only to help push him back to her. Also her killing of the Stark duplicate in "Were so Screwed: La Bomba." She is also the only crew member other than Areyn and Sikozu who does not treat Scorpius poorly. All the others treated him as a prisoner, Noranti always seemed pleasent with Scorpius. Yes she was a prisoner on his ship prier to her freedom on Moya. Lot of dren to think about...

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Just one thing bugged me..

Postby FrellMeDead on Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:13 am

I loved the miniseries. loved it. loved it. loved it.
But, I thought the soundtrack was really corny! some themes were alright, but others were kind of cheesy hero music....
D'Argo: As John once said, 'I would rather go down on a swing.'
Crichton: Swinging. You wanna go down... swinging.
D'Argo: Swinging.
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Postby trustywinona on Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:37 pm

that was quite a nice review don...hope your time away continues to go peacefully.

AAAAAAAANYWAY... this mini series was simply wonderful. One of the parts that (not that i didnt like it) made me really sad for obvious reasons was the part when the PK patrol roped in moya and the crew had to fight them off. While that was going on i just couldnt help but thinking, 'man...if this was season 5 this would have been a whole episode.' And i cant help but feel we got cheated out of another ferlow (sp) apearance (after all, she seems to show her face in the odd numbered seasons).

But all in all....i totally loved the mini. Still hurts that they never touched the nebari aspects which were brought in before we even heard of the scarrens. Oh well...we got our ending to the story we all poured our lives into. And if you were watching from the beginning like so many of us, or just joined our Farscape family....

it was amazing, it was beautiful...it IS Farscape.

thank you cast crew and creaters...and most of all...thank you Dani for giving us all a place to chat giggle and over analize about each weeks episode...thank you all...heartz n hugz....

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Postby shizuka on Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:00 am

"I totally disagree; they are forcing their peaceful nature on others. It might be for the greater good or whatever, but they are still doing it. "


I don't think they force peace. Remember the head guy said to them he could make them do anything. He does influence them though. He said he sees what each groups wants, their inner most desires and fears and tries to use them to negotiate with them. If they could force peace then they would not have needed to create the Peace Keepers and they wouldn't have been forced into that time warp. They could have just used there peace powers to kind of brain wash everyone if it was a forced thing. Influence yes, force no.
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Postby Dani Moure on Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:36 am

shizuka wrote:I don't think they force peace. Remember the head guy said to them he could make them do anything. He does influence them though. He said he sees what each groups wants, their inner most desires and fears and tries to use them to negotiate with them.

So they negotiate by making their head glow and somehow changing someone's attitude pretty quickly? I'm not saying they don't use the individuals desires or whatever, as they seemed to with Staleek, but it's clear he didn't want to see reason, and wanted war, and Yondalao changed that. That is more than influencing in my eyes. And I'm not going to argue from a story point of view, because I'm well aware the intention was to have them as influencers, but I just think the way it came off on screen, and in the writing, had an essence of force to it as well.

If they could force peace then they would not have needed to create the Peace Keepers and they wouldn't have been forced into that time warp. They could have just used there peace powers to kind of brain wash everyone if it was a forced thing. Influence yes, force no.

They are forcing the individual to consider (and agree to) peace, whether they want to or not. They may be using the individual's inner desires, it may be the best for everyone, but that doesn't change that they're being forceful. And as for the Peacekeepers and being able to brainwash if they could force their views, well, no, that's not the case at all. They needed Peacekeepers to enforce peace, and they couldn't brainwash because they have to be in the vicinity of the individual for their powers to be effective. Which is why their attempt to get Staleek to look at peace didn't work when Yondalao was killed.
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forcing peace

Postby AlmostOutOfFuel on Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:15 am

I think the way it probably worked in the "old days" is that the Idalons have to hang around for awhile for it to work in the long term.

In other words, they make people reasonable and calm, and if you keep people reasonable and calm long enough, they'll stay that way.

But, they just didn't have enough time with Staleek and the other Scaraans to make them stay reasonable. So when the "spell" was broken, Staleek went right back to being his normal self. Neural pathways too stubborn and all that.

But, if the Idalons could keep Staleek calm and reasonable for a few weeks, maybe then they can leave him alone and he will have learned how to be calm and reasonable on his own.

On this issue of forcing peace, I don't think they were forcing him to accept peace. It was forcing him to be calm and reasonable while they discuss peace.
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the music - Is it corny? Or an homage?

Postby AlmostOutOfFuel on Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:25 am

But, I thought the soundtrack was really corny! some themes were alright, but others were kind of cheesy hero music...


The thing about Farscape is that they do a lot of homages to movie archetypes, particularly to Star Wars.

Take the "Red Squadron" and "turn off your targeting computers" lines when Braca leads the Prowler attack.

Take the "it's not our fault" and "Chricton will fix it" lines.

There were also several passages of music that I think were intentially supposed to echo John Williams Star Wars music, as well as other archetypal hero music.

So, I don't think the music was corny accept to the degree that they intended it to be. At least, I think some of that corny stuff was intentionally "big and stereotypical" on purpose.

Farscape always seems to me to walk a very sublte line between spoof and seriousness. I think that's why many people don't get it. I think they miss that a lot of it is supposed to be exagerated and over-the-top and done-before, because the writers so smoothly mix that stuff in with genuinely original, serious stuff.
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